Question regarding brakes and materials

[smilebigtt]

I have a 1930.
1. Weaved material for the steel drum. Steel drums have a smooth outer surface?
2. Weaved material is installed with rivets?
3. The front brakes use the same shoes as the rear brakes?
4. The AA front brake drums are the same as the AA rear drums.
5. Which is better for front brakes, brake equalizers or brake floaters or both?
6. Are the equalizers or floaters used on the rear?
7. Will the car emergency brake arm work on an AA?
8. Is the front AA brake assembly (parts) the same as on a car?
Thanks in advance.

[rollingsculpture]

heres whats on my Early 31 truck. frt and rear drums these are cast also i have a pic of frt brk asy no back yet because im still trying to get a drum puller . note on the rear drum the extra built up part of the drum that the studs go into ,front one does not have that and while your looking at the back notice that iowa farm hitch , torqued and broke the frame cross member so they rewelded it onto the frame crooked, if any of you have a pic of what the back is really supposed to be like please start a new thread and show me .looks like reconstruction of the rear cross support is in my near future

[rollingsculpture]

so have you worked out which drums you have ? i suspect they are cast and not steel since it is a 1930 truck, so that must get you straight about which type of liner to use. How about the rear shoes and emergency brake band did you get a look yet? and as you saw from the pics the front and rear drums are different .and i havent seen a word on those floaters ? anyone use em , give us a word here dont be shy! ive noticed sometimes things dont get answered here and i wonder how all these folks who have done the work dont have anything to say ...too wore out working to do any typing , i guess the fingers must be bloody stumps ehh......anyone else have pics of the differences its good for those of us working on it and educational for those just visiting the site to get an idea of what things look like with that kind of info others might be encouraged to follow a dream and get started working on their own AA , i realize now how lucky i was to find as much of a truck as i did out there some of em are pretty far gone when you get below the 2k range . well, keep the good work up smilebigtt your tearing right through it and are bound to have a running chassis sometime by summer!

[smilebigtt]

Just yesterday the weather was decent enough to work outside and so I did. I was wanting to start my rebuild at the rear of the truck and work forward. But not having a puller to remove the rear hubs I started with the front axle. I pulled the front drums and found woven brake linings with brass or copper threads running through them. The center of the shoes are worn morn then the outer ends. They could still be used as far as remaining wear however there was a lot of melted grease inside the brake area. So I have to assume the linings soaked up the grease. All bearings/races, brake hard parts, spindles as all good shape. Just alot of built up grease/dirt on the outside and around joints. Going to the car wash today to see if I can bust through that. Sent in my first parts order last night. Feels good to get started on the rebuild part of this project. Got to get my two T's ready for this years car shows and criuses.
Knowing the complete history as far as owners and work this truck has done and the good condition I'm fining this truck to be in machanicaly, I'm having to question some of its past. I pulled the engine head and found it has cylinder sleeves but still mic out to standard. The tranny is in great shape as for wear. The pinion and internal parts that I can see in the rearend all look great shape. Spring bushing are all shot espacially the rear pivet bushings. In fact the wear at the rear pivet point had eegged out the spring mounting block. So i have'nt been able to decide whether the truck had been worked over to a degree before me or if some parts wore far less then others. Either way, going from working on T's to this AA is mind blowing. The difference in how heavy this AA is built. Anyway, this is where I stand today.

[Chris Haynes]

so have you worked out which drums you have ? i suspect they are cast and not steel since it is a 1930 truck,

My May 1930 AA came with pressed steel drums on all four corners.

[smilebigtt]

Mine is a June 30th and it has the pressed steel drums.

[rollingsculpture]

can you guys put up a pic of your drums and is there any difference between front and back? are they original to the truck? i thought they went with cast in 1930 does anyone know the change over date ?

[Chris Haynes]

can you guys put up a pic of your drums and is there any difference between front and back? are they original to the truck? i thought they went with cast in 1930 does anyone know the change over date ?

All four of my pressed steel drums appear to be the same.
Perhaps this will help you.
http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp20 ... eparts.jpg

[E.Moore]

The drums that came on the AA were all pressed steel. Replacement drums were sometimes cast iron. You need to get a copy of the A/AA parts book appropriate for your year truck. It will answer a lot of questions.

[rollingsculpture]

well thanks for the advice ,i think that as much as i like being able to come to the forum and ask a question it is sometimes like asking the invisible teacher a question and sometimes getting a direct answer and sometimes silence and than just a reference to a book i dont have ,may not be able to get or should i find a book may not have the answer i am looking for as in the case of the aa book from jim schild , while a nice book it is not anywhere complete as i would hope. at the risk of sounding like i dont want to learn from a book which is not true ,as i can read just fine , the reason i signed onto this site was because i thought well here are some guys who have been here before doing this work ,and i may be able to learn from them , obviously the knowledge is hard won and people seem reluctant to give up much info even in the way of pictures which i acknowledge are not easy to size and load considering the small file requirement which i understand from a computer operations sort of need for limiting bandwidth but here i am in washington dc not a suit by any means and somewhat an outcast as it is by choosing the profession of sculptor/ fabricator it is hard to find people who work on vintage cars much less trying to find someone working on a aa truck in this town. and it seems im not the only one who feels like ive made a mistake asking this or that question because im not a real car builder just a guy with enough knowledge to be able to take something apart and put it back together better than i found it. so i wonder why is it so hard just to answer a question with some personal knowledge and perhaps a quick photo , why cryptic incomplete answers or references to a book i dont have yet ? is the sites purpose here to educate or just redirect ? education with reference of research material is great and i am happy for it but i think those coming to this site not knowing anything may learn more if you all could share a bit more of what you know . sorry if this comes off as a rant i hope not to be offensive, there are only so many people doing aa trucks and those on this site are the ones who know the most so thats why we come here to ask .. (."there is no such thing as a dumb question, " ) ..from those who have done the work so i thank you for the help you have given so far.

[REM]

well thanks for the advice ,i think that as much as i like being able to come to the forum and ask a question it is sometimes like asking the invisible teacher a question and sometimes getting a direct answer and sometimes silence and than just a reference to a book i dont have ,may not be able to get or should i find a book may not have the answer i am looking for as in the case of the aa book from jim schild , while a nice book it is not anywhere complete as i would hope. at the risk of sounding like i dont want to learn from a book which is not true ,as i can read just fine , the reason i signed onto this site was because i thought well here are some guys who have been here before doing this work ,and i may be able to learn from them , obviously the knowledge is hard won and people seem reluctant to give up much info even in the way of pictures which i acknowledge are not easy to size and load considering the small file requirement which i understand from a computer operations sort of need for limiting bandwidth but here i am in washington dc not a suit by any means and somewhat an outcast as it is by choosing the profession of sculptor/ fabricator it is hard to find people who work on vintage cars much less trying to find someone working on a aa truck in this town. and it seems im not the only one who feels like ive made a mistake asking this or that question because im not a real car builder just a guy with enough knowledge to be able to take something apart and put it back together better than i found it. so i wonder why is it so hard just to answer a question with some personal knowledge and perhaps a quick photo , why cryptic incomplete answers or references to a book i dont have yet ? is the sites purpose here to educate or just redirect ? education with reference of research material is great and i am happy for it but i think those coming to this site not knowing anything may learn more if you all could share a bit more of what you know . sorry if this comes off as a rant i hope not to be offensive, there are only so many people doing aa trucks and those on this site are the ones who know the most so thats why we come here to ask .. (."there is no such thing as a dumb question, " ) ..from those who have done the work so i thank you for the help you have given so far.

What questions have not been answered yet. As I try to read back through this thread it gets somewhat confusing and I tend to drift off before I get it all soaked up.
I see no one has addressed using floaters. If some one has knowledge of them I would assume they would speak up. Most are not bashful about helping but many are willing to be quiet if they don't have real info to offer. (I like it that way) On many forums you can get as much or more opinion and misinformation as good info.

Personally I have no info about floaters on an AA.

Opinion
AA's have good brakes as they are. Floaters or other improvements not needed.

I have had the brakes apart on both my "30AA's and have no idea whether they have cast or steel drums. I don't think it matters.
Either type lining should be fine with either. I would personally go with the woven as I think that is what Henry used.

I don't know if the front and rear drums are the same. I do know the drum and hub assemblys are not the same for front and rear.

Front and rear shoes are the same.

Something was mentioned about E-brake linings but I don't remember that question.

Enough for now.

A post with one or two well defined questions will usually get better answers than one like this where it gets somewhat overwhelming.

[E.Moore]

The service bulletins have a wealth of information as well as the ford parts book. Both and more are avaliable through the normal Model A vendors like Brattons, Smith & Jones, MACS, Sacramento Vintage Ford Parts. There is a commercial section in the Model A Judging Standards and the Indianapolis Service Letters have a lot of details on AA parts. It seems like a lot of guys don't want to do much investigation of their AA and instead, post questions in hopes that others who have spent a lot of time not only researching but working on them, will give quick answers. I tried to send a detailed reply on babbitt to smilebigtt, but when I had finshed and clicked on submit, I had unknowingly timed out and all the half hour of information I had typed out vanished. I was so frustrated, that I turned the damned thing off. Details take time to type and when the timer cuts off without giving any warning, I can easily see why others who have a lot of knowldge don't reply.

[Matt Kroll]

1. Weaved material for the steel drum. Steel drums have a smooth outer surface? YES
2. Weaved material is installed with rivets? YES
3. The front brakes use the same shoes as the rear brakes? YES
4. The AA front brake drums are the same as the AA rear drums. YES, but the hubs are different
5. Which is better for front brakes, brake equalizers or brake floaters or both? Don't bother. Use the original setup - Works great as is
6. Are the equalizers or floaters used on the rear? See #5
7. Will the car emergency brake arm work on an AA? NO
8. Is the front AA brake assembly (parts) the same as on a car? NO

For pictures of drums, fresh rear brake assembly, rear of frame and more, see my website at http://www.smokypond.com/gallery/pictur ... tsisparts/ .

Also, you may want to invest in reprints of the Ford 1928-1937 Chassis Parts List book for passenger cars and trucks, Ford Chassis Parts and Accessories Catalogue for Passenger Cars 1928 thru 1948 and Trucks 1928 thru 1947, Model A Ford Service Bulletins - Complete, and last but not least, all of the back issues of the FMAATC Double 'A'r Newsletters.

Good luck!

-Matt

[rollingsculpture]

"Quote from REM
{" have had the brakes apart on both my "30AA's and have no idea whether they have cast or steel drums. I don't think it matters.
Either type lining should be fine with either. I would personally go with the woven as I think that is what Henry used. " }

Actually
from what i have read it is very important to get the correct lining for the drum you have !
steel drums get woven linings
cast iron drums get asbestos lining

the reason is that when woven linings if used on cast drums which heat up more and will cause brake fade with the woven material , translated that means when you apply the brakes you will get some grab to begin with but as the lining heats up on the drum it will become scorched and result in less ability to grab the drum and will instead become smooth and braking power will dramatically decrease , not great if on a hill with a load.

[Matt Kroll]

Actually
from what i have read it is very important to get the correct lining for the drum you have !
steel drums get woven linings
cast iron drums get asbestos lining

the reason is that when woven linings if used on cast drums which heat up more and will cause brake fade with the woven material , translated that means when you apply the brakes you will get some grab to begin with but as the lining heats up on the drum it will become scorched and result in less ability to grab the drum and will instead become smooth and braking power will dramatically decrease , not great if on a hill with a load.

First off, my early '30 AA has steel drums. Only steel drums are interchangeable between the front and rear (if you swap the hubs).

Regarding the use of the diifferent types of linings for use with steel and cast iron drums, the reality is that the worst possible condition you can create is the other way around: It is imperative that you use the WOVEN linings WITH the STEEL drums, as the steel drums have a burnished finish which will be destroyed as soon as the harder asbestos linings come into contact with it. Because of the burnished finish, the steel drums should not be turned or otherwise machined.

Using asbestos linings with the cast iron drums should provide you with a better braking system.

If you already know what type of drums you have, make the appropriate choice.

Matt