The question of the day is , on the Ford AA, are there conversion parts to make the AA have “juice” brakes? I figure like the 1940 car brakes retro to a model a, there also must be a way to do this to an AA truck from a 40s 1.5 ton truck. Anyone know a resource for this?
Thanks, Alan....
Juice Brakes for the AA
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alan w
juice brakes for AA
I have started to tackle this problem for my AA/Cretors popcorn truck. After researching Hollander's interchange manuals I determined that 1940 - 1947 Ford 1 ton trucks have the same bolt pattern and hyd. brakes. The kingpins on the front spindles for the 40-47 units are .812 and for the AA 1 inch. That leaves two options as I see it. Sleeve the AA axle or bore the 40-47 spindles. I believe I will sleeve the axle. I still have a concern about the length of the spindles and that most likely will be the determining factor to either sleeve or bore.
The rear axle presents another issue. The 40-47 1 ton axle is a full floating axle and subsequently the disk wheels will not have enough material available to remove from the center to allow them to mount over the outer axle housing that contains the floating design. I plan on utilizing my wire wheels by installing longer wheel studs and utilizing a spacer to fill the gap. The hub of the wire wheel will be able to clear the axle with the spacer. I don't know if the disc wheels could use the spacer approach or not.
The one item that I haven't done yet is measure the tread width of the two axles. As I have already purchased the axles and brake assy's I'll know relatively soon. Worst case will be that the late style axle will be to narrow. I really don't think so, but will find out. That would mean fabricating a wider axle housing. Narrowing it would be standard for most good driveline shops. If either has to be done it most likely will mean that custom axle shafts will be required. You will have to convert to an open driveline or have the later rear axle converted to closed. I'm not really sure if one can convert to closed, but don't know really why not. It just takes money. One more thing, to locate the rear axle you will need to take the rear radius rods and mount them to the late style axle and attach them to the rear most cross member if you stay with the open driveline system. That should be an easy fabrication.
I don't know if this will help or hurt your enthusiasm for this project. Take into consideration this is just one individuals approach to this issue. I, like you, have not been able to find any routine approach to guide me, so......thats what I have come up with.
Now after that lengthy response, depending on what your goals are with your truck, you do have one more option that would take considerably less work. I was advised by a gentleman that the early trucks of all makes utilized vacuum boosters on the mechanical brakes of that era. I don't believe that it would be to difficult to accomplish today if they did it back in that era. The two most important things to consider, which you should do even with stock mechanical brakes, is to make sure you have them adjusted properly at all times and when you do a brake job make sure that you arc the shoes to fit th drum in order that the shoes seat fully when applied. Due to the wonderful EPA, locating a machine to arc them may be an issue. Check out Metal Friction Inc. in Seattle, WA. They, and I'm sure there are others who reline older vehicles shoes, should be able to assist in that dept. For casual driving, parades, ect, this should provide good stopping power for those purposes. I relined more sets of shoes and arced them than I can recall when I was a young parts man a few moons ago. We sold them as exchange units and shops were always glad that we performed the service routinely. Hope I didn't bore you to death. If you have further questions or would like to follow along with my project you can contact me at arw60@comcast.net
The rear axle presents another issue. The 40-47 1 ton axle is a full floating axle and subsequently the disk wheels will not have enough material available to remove from the center to allow them to mount over the outer axle housing that contains the floating design. I plan on utilizing my wire wheels by installing longer wheel studs and utilizing a spacer to fill the gap. The hub of the wire wheel will be able to clear the axle with the spacer. I don't know if the disc wheels could use the spacer approach or not.
The one item that I haven't done yet is measure the tread width of the two axles. As I have already purchased the axles and brake assy's I'll know relatively soon. Worst case will be that the late style axle will be to narrow. I really don't think so, but will find out. That would mean fabricating a wider axle housing. Narrowing it would be standard for most good driveline shops. If either has to be done it most likely will mean that custom axle shafts will be required. You will have to convert to an open driveline or have the later rear axle converted to closed. I'm not really sure if one can convert to closed, but don't know really why not. It just takes money. One more thing, to locate the rear axle you will need to take the rear radius rods and mount them to the late style axle and attach them to the rear most cross member if you stay with the open driveline system. That should be an easy fabrication.
I don't know if this will help or hurt your enthusiasm for this project. Take into consideration this is just one individuals approach to this issue. I, like you, have not been able to find any routine approach to guide me, so......thats what I have come up with.
Now after that lengthy response, depending on what your goals are with your truck, you do have one more option that would take considerably less work. I was advised by a gentleman that the early trucks of all makes utilized vacuum boosters on the mechanical brakes of that era. I don't believe that it would be to difficult to accomplish today if they did it back in that era. The two most important things to consider, which you should do even with stock mechanical brakes, is to make sure you have them adjusted properly at all times and when you do a brake job make sure that you arc the shoes to fit th drum in order that the shoes seat fully when applied. Due to the wonderful EPA, locating a machine to arc them may be an issue. Check out Metal Friction Inc. in Seattle, WA. They, and I'm sure there are others who reline older vehicles shoes, should be able to assist in that dept. For casual driving, parades, ect, this should provide good stopping power for those purposes. I relined more sets of shoes and arced them than I can recall when I was a young parts man a few moons ago. We sold them as exchange units and shops were always glad that we performed the service routinely. Hope I didn't bore you to death. If you have further questions or would like to follow along with my project you can contact me at arw60@comcast.net
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popcorn-guy
- Posts: 100
- Joined: April 11th, 2005, 1:40 am
- Model Year: 1930
- Location: CA
juice brake for AA
Thanks to Bruce Wayne I have been digging deeper into this subject. As of today I have found two wrecking yards that have confirmed that 1939 was the transition year for hyd. brakes. Driveline transistion from closed to open appears, at least in Hollanders, to be 1940 and the two yards agreed. Leaving 1939 as the preferred choice at this moment. 1939, it would appear, would provide one with a closed driveline and hyd. brakes utilizing a 1 ton which carries the same bolt pattern as the AA. According to Hollanders, if I'm reading it correctly, the driveshaft would be 65 5/16" long for the 39. The AA w/131.5" wb has a shaft of 55 1/4" in length (long shaft) subsequently there would be more than enough length available to shorten the 39 to the shorter length required by the AA. It appears that there are two different lengths for the short shafts, that being 19 3/4" & 45 1/8" as listed in Hollanders. ???
I have not seen a 157" wb truck so I'm not sure if this is correct or if Hollanders had a misprint as to long or short. I know of two AA in local yards and will go check it out, time permitting.
Don't know if I'm helping or hurting, but I'm digging. If anyone interested in this topic finds a 39 1 ton rear drive train assy please enlighten us.
I have not seen a 157" wb truck so I'm not sure if this is correct or if Hollanders had a misprint as to long or short. I know of two AA in local yards and will go check it out, time permitting.
Don't know if I'm helping or hurting, but I'm digging. If anyone interested in this topic finds a 39 1 ton rear drive train assy please enlighten us.