Warford adapter

[rustngreese]

I am installing a 3 speed warford (over/direct/under) behind a 4 speed transmission, I have all of the parts except the spline adapter that goes between the trans and the Warford. I wonder if anyone out there has seen one or has a photo of one. Thanks.

[Bob C]

There is no spline adapter between the 4-speed and the Warford , just the bearing retainer on the 4-speed and the u-joint.Maybe you are looking at the output end of the Warford, that takes an end off a 28-29 coupling shaft.
Do a search under Warford on this site and you will see some pictures.

Bob

[rustngreese]

Thanks for the reply Bob. I do have the bearing retainer plate that I bought from a guy on this website but I was unsure if there was another U Joint in there or some sort of adapter, but you have cleared that up for me. My 4 speed has 6 splines, but they are a different configuration than the 6 splines on the Warford's input side, so I am sure this is a special U Joint.

[Chris Haynes]

Yup, it is different. I was looking through a box of U jounts at a swap meet trying to find the right splines on a couple U joints with the idea of swapping parts to make the right one. I actually found the correct U joint in that box. It cost me 5 bucks.

[Bob C]

If you have a 28-29 Warford then you need the u-joint that was used to put
a 4-speed in a model A car or pickup. I think it is 1 1/8" 6 spline.

Bob

[tiredtruckrestorer]

Hello rustngreese,

You are correct in that there is a special coupling to connect the '30-31 Warford to the 4-speed trans unlike the '28-29 Warford that uses a u-joint. Since the four speed trans is longer than the 3-speed, a shorter coupling setup is used. I'm going to try to attach some pictures from photobucket for you. If it doesn't work email me at tiredtruck@verizon.net and I'll send them to you.

Keith

[tiredtruckrestorer]

If you go to my photobucket albums, tiredtruckrestorer, I gave a description of what is pictured. I don't know why they didn't come along with the pictures to this forum.

Keith

[Chris Haynes]

If you put a 1929 type Warford behind a four speed do you still use the U joint???

[rustngreese]

Boy what great responses to my question! I really appreciate all of the input I have gotten on this forum, you guys are great. I guess now I have to determine what year my Warford is so I can get either the U Joint or the other adapter. Does anyone know if I can get a date on the Warford by the numbers on the side of the case?

[Neil Wilson]

The '28/'29 Warford has a six spline input shaft (same as the A drive shaft, '28/'29 AA coupling shaft, and '28/'29 AA dual high transmission).

If you want to install a '28/'29 Warford behind a 4-speed, then a special u-joint is required. Plus a different rear bearing retainer, A style u-joint housing (like at the AA torque tube), a '28/'29 coupling shaft rear support, and a '28/'29 AA u-joint for the Warford to drive shaft.

I know of only about three '30/'31 Warfords (Keith's is one). They are a rare transmission.

[tiredtruckrestorer]

Hello Rustngreese,

The only way I know of identifing the different Warfords is the size of the input splines. The '28-29 Warford has input splines that measure approximately 1.0865 at its' greatest diameter. In contrast, the '30-31 Warford has a input spline measurement of approximately 1.240. A special gear slips over these splines then to increase the spline size to the same outside diameter as the AA-4811 (coupling shaft male gear) that slides on the 4-speed transmission output shaft. The special Warford female coupling sleeve then slides over these two gears to make the connection. This sleeve has two internal snap ring grooves with snap rings installed to keep this coupling in place. I measured the length of this whole assembly and compared it to the u-joint assembly that was used for the "28-29 installation and it was about 3/4" shorter than the u-joint. So even if you'd find a u-joint with the right splines to fit, it may be a little too long. Also, like Neil stated, a different rear trans bearing retainer must be used. If you look at the pictures I sent before, the bearing retainer would have to mate to the three hole plate shown hanging on the front housing of the Warford. So just making the shaft connection with a modified u-joint or coupling is only part of the problem as the front nose of the Warford has to be supported and connected to the rear of the four speed. If you have the '28-29 style Warford it may be easier just to put a 3-speed trans in. One other problem you may also run into is the brake cross-shaft, but I won't go into that now. Just warning you. Hope this maybe makes it clearer.

Keith

[rustngreese]

Thanks for the reply Keith. Your description makes it much clearer, especially with the photos that you have on Photo Bucket. I sure appreciate all of your expertise. I am going to set the engine in and see what the clearance is between the trans and the Warford. I did manage to get the bearing retainer for the Warford before from a guy on this forum. I have determined that the Warford is a 28/29. Thanks again for all of the information, I should be able to figure it out from here, thanks to all of you guys.

[bud valerius]

I have a 1930/31 Warford in my 1930 service car , 1929 Warford in my sons 1930 gas delivery , a 1929 Warford in my 1931 195A express , 1931 Warford for 157" wheelbase that isn't installed yet , a 1929 Warford and 1929 Muncie to go in my 1928 express and my 1929 Martin Parry express , haven't decided witch one will go in witch truck yet . When installing a Warford in a 30/31 131" wheel base AA with a 4 speed transmission you will have to modify the brake cross shaft .I have used a 30/31 Model A cross shaft by adding a inch and one half to each end mounting the arms to the outside of the frame then using the idler bracket from a 29 AA or one from a 157" AA to connect the brake rods . Bud Valerius

[Jared275]

Bob,
You don't want all that old junk, let clear some space for you and take it off your hands

In all seriousness, do you know of a good source for replacement parts for the warford's. I have located a warford that I am picking up for a hundred, but it needs a shifter and tower and a complete rebuild.

Thanks in advance,
Jared

[SHELBY MESSER]

Jared Plunder around this web page and see what you can fine!!! http://WWW.laynemachine.com/ Maybe it is what you are looking for! Hope it Helps. They have been building the warford for the TT and AA for about 50 years I think! Shelby, Louisiana.
Also look at this layne machine works KS Warford page (you may need to go to the web site to get this? Click on the TT warford It may be this same page!