new owner... with questions/want ads

[pyrodork]

just picked one up last weekend for $800. i was told it was a 28, but the engine number is from jan 29... even still, some people on the aaca forums are convinced it's a 30 (but apparently they're not as knowledgeable about the aa as they are in the a, so i'm not sure). the id tag on the firewall is as good as gone (what did it say?). didn't see any serial numbers on the frame. so i need to identify this in order to buy correct parts. i'm leaning/pushing towards 29. it was a barn find years ago and sat outside for quite a few years after that. any way to get a build card?

i have no intent towards a restoration. want to keep it rusty, turn it into a roadster with a folding top, later possibly upgrade the engine and drive components and all that. nothing major, but i'd like to keep up on the highway.


i read the post about cleaning the engine with muratic acid, but there was a warning about babbit bearings. how do i know if i have them? will muratic acid also clean out the transmission (just opened mine up and it's kinda rusty, but gears look fine)? i do plan on replacing the gaskets.

on the subject of the tranny, the whole reason why i took the shifter cover off was because it was too rusted to shift. also the reverse lockout was rusted in, too. but yeah, as i was trying to adjust the nut for that, the threaded end broke in half.
i think i'm looking for a new (but rusty) 4-speed shifter (or can i disable the lockout?). i know i can clean the lever guts.

i have no lights whatsoever. lightswitch/horn knob broke off at the wheel. the steering wheel nut is rusted so bad it looks like it's welded in. how do i remove it to replace the rod (that i need to measure)? i thought of naval jelly, but i've never used it before and didn't have it at the garage tonight. on that subject, what's a good way to remove those rusty flathead screws? oh, and my fuel sediment bowl is broken off and i can't seem to get the nut loose yet.

i have one brake rod (left rear) and the bar connecting the two rear ones to the e-brake, or something. no stoplight switch. i need new (hopefully rusty used) rods, for sure, but i have no idea what my measuring points are. what do i need? brake pedal is also hitting the starter housing, but maybe that will be corrected when i have a complete set of rods? i also have no e-brake or PTO levers.

front motor mount is very loose. seems to be missing some kind of rubber bushing? i can locate replacement pads for the rear mounts, but can't find anything for the front. radiator fins have damage from the fan blade, and i'm sure that front mount is the issue. it was also difficult to get the old fan belt out because the fan was so close to the radiator.

one of my budd wheels seems to be getting small rust holes around the curve along the outer edge; probably from sitting outside. is this something safe to weld? as i've said, i'm not too concerned about proper look; more about functionality.


to recap, i do have an intense list of items i'll be looking for. unfortunately, budgeting is a major issue at the moment, so most medium-to-large things will have to wait.
that said, i'm looking for info on buying:
- 4spd shifter lever/housing; if i cannot just replace the reverse lockout rod (used)
- brake rods (used)
- e-brake lever and outside mechanism (used)
- pto lever and outside mechanism (used)
- front motor mount (new)

the list will be added to at various times. i did buy some books that are on the way. primary concern is getting the motor running, then i can move on to more rolling functions.

thanks!

[TomH]

Welcome to Big Iron. There are some very well informed folks who freely share there knowledge on this forum. I think if you do some searching on these forums you will find answers to most of your questions. Also Vince Falters Ford garage, and the Ford Barn are two more good sites. Unless your engine has been updated you have babbits. If you are just making it a driver like many of us here, I think the engine is the best place to start.
Best of luck,
TomH

[Bob C]

Yes it looks like a 1930, the early ones used 29 sheet metal.

Bob

[vtwinsideways]

Welcome Pyrodork! As far as the muriatic acid goes, you do not want to dip the whole block in it as it will eat the babbit. You could build a tank and place the block in top side down and raise the level of the acid mixture to just below the main bearings. Unless you are dealing with major rust inside the bores (which will require a bore job anyway) or the crank case, I would just try to clean out the water passages good. You can do this by making block off plates for the side inlet (left of block) and the water pump flange (on head) and filling it with an acid mixture. this can be accomplished with the engine still in the truck. It is recommended that you remove the head gasket after doing this as it may hold some acid residue.
As far as the year goes, the vin is under the cowl and splash apron just behind the front of the cowl on top of the frame on the drivers (American) side. You will have to lift the cowl and the splash apron. And to make things worse, the rust and the rubbing of metal against metal over the years may have obliterated it. There is also a vin on the block. If it starts with (star)AA you may have the original block. Luke

[SHELBY MESSER]

To be on the safe side on cleaning the water jack (inside engine block),Block off the side water return by the engine # as stated above. leave the water pump in place. Pickup about 3 gallons white or regular vinegar and a box of Arm & hammer baking soda. Fill the water jacket full of pure vinegar. Let it set for 7-10, drain and recover for future use. After draining the vinegar take a garden hose and flush the engine block out 'til water is clear. Then block the water jacket again. Take the Arm & Hammer baking soda and mix with water (about a cup soda 2 gallons . Mix soda and water well before pouring into water jacket, make sure the water and soda has the jacket full, lets set for 30 minute drain flush with clear water. Nothing else to do (the baking soda nus the vinegar)!!! Shelby, Louisiana.

[pyrodork]

i'm finding a few variations between 29 and 30 parts on the truck... which is possible. the original owner had maybe 5 or 6 of these trucks on his farm when they were found (maybe 20+ years ago). it's completely possible that parts were interchanged if needed. i just discovered that my 29 engine has the stars, but only one A... but they were the same engine, right?

cleaning the engine with the acid was more or less an idea to make sure everything is ready to be operated. i have not pulled the head yet, but i have noticed through the plug holes that the valves are pretty dirty. i figured it would prep everything for when i do pull the head. i don't have a hoist or anything, so for now, removing the block isn't an option. i'll do that vinegar and baking soda thing for the water system. on my plymouth, i used straight vinegar a few times to clean the cooling system and flushed it with distilled water.

cleaning the radiator and gas tank are also things that will need to be done, but i can wait for. i'll fill up the radiator to see if there's any leaks first of all. i was going to take them both to a radiator shop to be cleaned and sealed.

i'd still like to know a good way to clean the rust from the transmission gears. i can probably do the baking soda/vinegar thing, but i already have muratic acid... and if that will work, i may as well; as it sounds like it's quicker and more thorough.

another issue is that i don't have a running water supply (i only rent the garage and the hose hookup on the house is shut off), so i have to bring my own water whenever i make the trip out there. unfortunate, but i'm getting a hell of a deal on a 2-stall garage.

fortunately, i have located brake rods, front motor mount, and reverse lockout rod already. i still need the crossmember for the service brakes. there's one on ebay, but i'm not sure if it's complete, if it'll work for me, or if i should wait on it entirely.

also, my question about removing "rust weld". that steering wheel nut is very badly rusted on. i inquired about naval jelly at home depot, but they said it was more a chemical converting substance than a rust remover. they suggested heat... but i forget... heat the object or the surrounding area? what's a good way to secure the steering wheel while i try to remove the nut? i suppose i could strap it to the frame (i have plywood floorboards that are easily removed).

i just remembered that there's an antique car museum about 20-30 miles from here. i'll try to make it there this week. they're sure to have model a's, but model aa's... i'm not betting on it. anyone know of club members in the minneapolis area?

you guys are going to be my saviors on this project. thanks in advance!

[BrianBurkert]

Looking at the transmission rust, I'd suggest totally disassembling it and cleaning all parts by hand (wire brush, or wire brush wheel, or sandblasting). Then you can inspect all bearings/shafts and replace bearings/shafts as needed. The gears are probably still good. Those transmissions were tough.

My AA had similar water and rust in the engine and transmission. I totally disassembled both and inspected all parts. I was able to salvage both at minimal cost without full rebuilds. In my case, I was lucky with my engine as the babbitt was good-- This is seldom the case.

[pyrodork]

Looking at the transmission rust, I'd suggest totally disassembling it and cleaning all parts by hand (wire brush, or wire brush wheel, or sandblasting). Then you can inspect all bearings/shafts and replace bearings/shafts as needed. The gears are probably still good. Those transmissions were tough.

My AA had similar water and rust in the engine and transmission. I totally disassembled both and inspected all parts. I was able to salvage both at minimal cost without full rebuilds. In my case, I was lucky with my engine as the babbitt was good-- This is seldom the case.

i've never disassembled a transmission before. in fact, this was the first time i'd ever opened one up. i'm pretty handy, but some tips would be welcomed. i was going to get a sandblaster attachment for my compressor. couldn't i do that with the gears installed, rotating them? or is that just a silly question?

and sorry for my lack of knowledge, but what is a babbitt? it seems to be pretty important.

[Reds34]

I would not sandblast a transmission with gears still installed. You'll never get all the sand out of the bearings. The transmission is quite simple and they aren't difficult to take apart. You will have to remove the transmission to disassemble it. Babbit is what the engine bearings are made of. It is a bit pricey to get a model a engine rebuilt.

Red

[flatford39]

Sand blasting the gears is not a good idea. Please don't even think about it. You need to take it apart and clean them with a wire wheel or some other less abrasive media. I have a feeling you were thinking about sand blasting them while they are still in the case but maybe I interpretated you wrong.

As far as sand blasters go you need alot of CFM from your compressor that most hobbyist don't have. Start with a compressor that can hanle a sand blaster and then buy your sand blaster and other pneumatic tools from there.

[macswoods]

Glad to see a new owner of a AA, We all sure like to talk /help. I just rebuilt my 4 speed. A good general book on the AA's is AA TRUCK supplement to restorer's model A shop manual by Jim schild.(ISBN 0-9624958-5-9) Also if you are new to model A's look into http://www.mafca.com, one of the national model A clubs. You can get a whole series of manuals on how to restore the model A. Also if you have a digital camera, take A BUNCH of PICTURES of taking apart of averything, saved my bacon a lot of times. I had 2 transmissions, one full of water ,the other packer full of mouse nests, used parts from both. Mac.....

[SHELBY MESSER]

Looks like you have an oil free tranny. But you may need to remove the drain plug to drain any that may be left, flush with hot water or solvent rinse with water. DO NOT USE ACID. Replace drain plug.Using regular vinegar, fill trans. as full as will stay in (vinegar will not harm any of the metal or parts) let the vinegar set while you are removing the engine and tranny. (turn the gears so they all get to set in the vinegar) Save vinegar for use later. The gears will turn black, that is only rust, will rinse off with water. Wash the part in a solution of ARM & HAMMER baking soda and water or the part will rust over again, If more rust need to be removed soak in vinegar,(needs to soak in vinegar 2 or 3 days maybe more). finish cleaning, dry and lightly oil. Let us know how your tranny turns out!!! Shelby, Louisiana.

[vtwinsideways]

That steering nut is a toutchy area. I split the nut with a chisel on one and soaked another with Merc/Dex Auto trans fluid and used a chisel like a drift and whacked the outside corners of the bolt to loosen it (as the nut was rusted round). The second method was much easier. Dad tried to take one off with a wrench and twisted the nut and the top of the shaft off at the same time. They make a replacement top for the shaft if you trash it (keyway type), but you'll need a machinest to recut the keyway. If you have the steering wheel with the keyway, once the nut is off (yes, that was the easy part) to get the steering wheel off screw the nut back down so that it is almost flush with the rod and place a washer and an undersized bolt down thru the hole in the shaft and give the bolt a whack with a brass hammer to to break it free. DO NOT beat on the nut itself or on the shaft!!! If you have the splined shaft, all I can say is good luck and you'll have to ask someone else how to get it off, because the last one I helped take off involved a tourch, a fire extinguisher, two different gear pullers, much cussing and the need for a new steering wheel! Luke

[tiredtruckrestorer]

The "A" or "AA" in your engine number just showed whether the vehicle had a car or truck clutch and pressure plate in it, otherwise the engines are the same. Since your truck has a "A" engine it must have been changed sometime and heaven knows which clutch was used. It probably wouldn't matter for what you will be using it for. Your truck is really an early to mid '30. Generally order '30-'31 "AA" parts for the chassis, but '28-'29 sheetmetal parts. This is how these trucks were made from the factory. The sheetmetal changeover to these happened around June 1930.

If the transmission was that full of water I'd check the underside of the case as they are known to freeze up and crack.

I'm sure I'd have a brake crossshaft if you still need one.

Keith

[Chris Haynes]

A product called Kroil will dissolve any rust. Buy a gallon from Kano Labs. When finished with the transmission drain it and keep it for other projects. Keep in in a plastic container so you can soak rusty parts in it.
http://www.kanolabs.com/