1930/1931 Rear Spare Carrier Wanted For 157 WB

[E.Moore]

Neil, Chris is correct. I am incorreect. After reviewing the Judging Standards, I had mistakenly taken the "cad plating is OK for unfinished grease fittings" in section 11 too far, to include fasteners.

This site is a good place to get feedback from others, who have the memory and or knowledge to know what is correct.

Those Universal joint cover bolts will get removed and painted black, once they are scuffed for the paint to stick to.

I've got to go over the chassis from front to rear to get the finishes of the fasteners correct, and I've got to continuously read the Judging Standards so I don't overlook or mis read what is stated.

Thanks to Neil, Chris & Drew, who have taken to time to reply to my postings for corrective measures.

Drew, There were men whose task it was to use a small brush at the factory to paint over fasteners after components were assembled. When those fasteners were removed for repairs, they were not repainted by dealer personnel.

The giudes that we use for restoration are the Judging Standards and the original Parts Books that were used by the Ford dealers parts departments. Some parts in the parts books show finishes that did not come on the vehicles originally off of the assembly lines, and plating finishes of some fasteners are examples.

The judging committees have people who worked at Ford, who never saw the light of the assembly floor, but are dictating their desires because they worked at Ford and have determined the finishes that we are to use if we want to obtain the highest point value for a section being judged, so we have to follow the Judging Standards while we turn our head and disagree with them. It can get political.

I was a technical specialist for one of the car manufacturers for a decade and know firsthand how some things are changed.

[Chris Haynes]

If the parts are painted after assembly, why do they need to be assembled or tightened further (which chips the paint)?

Frame assembles were touched up (Repainted) after the front and rear axles were installed. Everything was painted black.

[bud valerius]

E. Moore you might try using pinch weld primer that is used when replacing windshields to paint your cadium plated nuts and bolts, it will leave a black finish and you may not have to remove all your nuts and bolts. I just painted a new bolt to see if it would work and it sticks real good to the cadium plating

[Drew Mashburn]

E.Moore, Chris Haynes:

Thanks for the info. What a job.............touching up fasteners with a small paint brush after the chassis's were assembled! Now that sounds like a job I could handle with my I.Q.! I guess I'm not so stupid afterall, that's what I've been doing as my chassis is SLOWY going back together.

-- Drew

[Neil Wilson]

Does anyone know where in the judging standards it talks about having fastners painted black? I can find a small paint brush and do this job. I just don't want to spend the time doing it and then not have this accepted at judging time!

I find in the 3rd edition of the "Model A Ford Paint and Finish Guide" a great article on the "Assembly of the Chassis" and how it was spray painted with chassis black after the assembly of most everything except the engine/transmission. However, there is a disclaimer on page 2 and indicates that the Paint/Finish Guide does not agree with the Judging Standards! Hmm - why can't the experts come up with a complete agreement???

[bud valerius]

I just tryed to remove the pinch weld primer from the new cadium bolt I coated earlier today.It is hard to remove .you might try coating your nuts & bolts with it. You can use a dobber to apply it . it drys quick ( in seconds) . ,any shop that installs windshields will have it . they might let you try coating a bolt so you can see for your self how it would work for you

[Drew Mashburn]

E.Moore,

Where did you obtain the information that, after chassis fasteners were tightened, that they were painted by hand by workmen at the factories? This might be vital information that could majorly influence the Judging Standards.

-- Drew

[Chris Haynes]

I have actually seen a photo is a book, which one I can't remember right now, showing the frame being turned over after everything was assembled then another showing the fame after touch up.

[E.Moore]

Drew, I've read so much information on the A/AA, that I can't put my finger in exactly where it is; however, it is in one of those big books on the Model A, by DeAngeles or one of the others. One of the judging standards committee members (John Kluttz) has also stated it, but it is not in the Judging Standards.

I'm going to remove the fasteners that need to be painted black and paint them, then reinstall them. I'll get some photos posted after that ordeal.

[Drew Mashburn]

E.Moore:

Thanks for the info. President Neil and Vice Prez Bud.............if you guys are reading this, how do we go about changing the Judging Standards? Surely, if we, as about the only AA Truck Club around, insist on changes to the Judging Standards, won't that do it?

-- Drew

[Neil Wilson]

Read pages 14 through 18 (The Chassis) in the booklet Model A Ford Paint & Finish Guide. This explains lots about the painting of the chassis. The front end was assembled from individual painted parts. The rear end was painted as a unit after assembly. These assemblies exclude the backing plates. The frame was painted (dipped) after the cross members and small brackets were attached (excluding running board brackets).

The chassis was then assembled with the front end, rear end, brake cross shaft assemblies, running board brackets, shocks with arms, fender brackets. engine support brackets. This included all nuts, bolts, and cotters (except engine support cotters). This inverted assembly was then painted with chassis black pyroxylin. The chassis was turned over and painted from the top side with chassis black pyroxylin. This coat of paint was intended to cover up scratches and nicks as well as coating unfinished hardware. So, there you go! The majority of the hardware was painted black!!!

[Drew Mashburn]

Neil:

Awesome information!!! I'll have to purchase that book. I wasn't aware it existed. So, because the chassis was inverted when last painted, any sags or runs ought to be going upwards when the chassis is set on it's tires. Any sags and runs going the other way should take away points from a vehicle by the Judges during a show. Cool!!!

Thanks, Bud!
-- Drew

[Neil Wilson]

The chassis was first painted in the inverted position and then turned over to be sprayed from the top. So, there could be runs in both directions!

By the way, I think someone posted a picture earlier on this thread showing the bolts attaching the torque tube to the cross member. I think that the heads of the bolts were facing the rear. These six bolts were intalled with the heads toward the front of the chassis. I think it would be close to impossible to insert cotters with the nuts on the front side.

The referenced article above covers the A chassis. I would guess that the AA chassis was painted in the same manner. But, the coupling shaft would need to have been installed along with the rear axle. So, the touch up spray job would have includded the coupling shaft (but excluding the six bolts used to attach the coupling shaft to the transmission).

[Drew Mashburn]

Neil:

I said it before, I'll say it again............."Cool!!!" This is the kind of info needed to perform correct restorations. Somehow, this type of info needs to be readily available to Judges.

-- Drew

[E.Moore]

Neil, I just had another look at all 4 of my 30/31 chassis with running gear and all of the 157wb chassis have the bolts facing the direction as in the photo on page 7 of this thread and the 30 131wb has the bolts in the direction you describe.

The cotter pins are no problem to install and remove with the bolt heads facing toward the rear.

The position of the torque tube cover in the same photo has the separation in the horizontal position, All 4 of my trucks have the separation in the same direction, However page 107 of the Big Green Ford Parts book show the separation in the vertical position.

This appears to be a bit subjective. Do you have anything definitive.