I need some tips on keeping cool

AA Ford Discussion Group relating to the repair and restoration of your AA Ford.
KimVanOrder
Posts: 753
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
Model Year: 1928
Location: Hamilton, Mich.

I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by KimVanOrder »

So, I got the 28 AA running and took it for a ride only to find out it gets hot. Steaming a lot.. Just put on a new two blade fan as original, New water pump impeller, had all the holes in the radiator fixed and filled with 50% water and antifreeze.

Any tips on keeping it cool would be usefull. Timing? Gas mixture? Do I need a shroud on the fan?

KVO
KVO
Dec. '28 AA
birdacre
Posts: 480
Joined: October 8th, 2013, 2:37 pm
Body Type: AA express
Model Year: 1928

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by birdacre »

cool running idea: i had a 30 model a woody. it would run hot, no leaks, good fan, correct timing. it was a matter of scale and dirt in radiator. i filled the radiator with white distilled vinegar and drove it around for a day, flushed it 3 times with clear water driving it one day each, and it ran nice and cool. i think i probably increased the surface area for cooling an awful lot. i always run the timing advanced on steering column all the way too once warmed up. hope this helps. you can also fill the radiator and then pull off the bottom hose and measure how many seconds it takes to drain it into a bucket. do this before and after the vinegar treatment and compare the drain time.
KimVanOrder
Posts: 753
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
Model Year: 1928
Location: Hamilton, Mich.

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by KimVanOrder »

birdacre wrote:cool running idea: i had a 30 model a woody. it would run hot, no leaks, good fan, correct timing. it was a matter of scale and dirt in radiator. i filled the radiator with white distilled vinegar and drove it around for a day, flushed it 3 times with clear water driving it one day each, and it ran nice and cool. i think i probably increased the surface area for cooling an awful lot. i always run the timing advanced on steering column all the way too once warmed up. hope this helps. you can also fill the radiator and then pull off the bottom hose and measure how many seconds it takes to drain it into a bucket. do this before and after the vinegar treatment and compare the drain time.

Thanks for the Tip. I've got radiator flush / cleaner. I'll run that through first then the vinigar treatment then maybe more Cleaner. I think your prognosis is correct. Needs a good cleaning.
Is it supposed to have a shroud around the fan?

KVO
KVO
Dec. '28 AA
User avatar
1crosscut
Posts: 877
Joined: December 25th, 2010, 7:22 pm
Body Type: 82-A
Model Year: 1929
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by 1crosscut »

Timing too advanced?

Radiator filled with crud.
Pull the radiator out, plug the bottom outlet and put in 1 gallon of straight Simple Green. Slosh it around and let it sit. Do this several times a day for a couple of days or so. Flush well with clean water.

Fins on the radiator loose from the verticle tubes? Not heat transfer if not connected well.

Paint too thick on radiator fins? Again poor heat transfer.

Water level too high causing it to look like it is over heating? Just need enough water to cover the tubes. AA's will puke and steam water out until they find the level they like.

Check to see if it is actually over heating. Get a cheap meat thermometer and stick it in the radiator when "hot".

Get an infrared thermometer and check for hot / cool spots over the entire surface of the radiator cooling fins.

Block plugged with crud? Disconnect upper and lower hoses and flush with strong stream of water from garden hose. Run a 50/50 mix of Simple Green and H2O for a while. Drain and rinse. Possibly refill with vinegar and run that for a while to dissove rust. Rinse well.

Head gasket leaking into cooling system? torque head bolts. Pull fan belt off and look for bubbles while reving engine or get test kit.

Open your GAV if running too lean.

Hope that this helps.

Dave
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Dave
User avatar
spectria
Posts: 1874
Joined: May 15th, 2008, 9:53 pm
Body Type: Mail Truck, Stakebed
Model Year: 1931
Location: Quincy, Ca.

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by spectria »

1crosscut wrote:...Radiator filled with crud. Pull the radiator out, plug the bottom outlet and put in 1 gallon of straight Simple Green. Slosh it around and let it sit. Do this several times a day for a couple of days or so. Flush well with clean water.... Hope that this helps. Dave
Dave, do you know what makes simple green clean in a cooling system? I thought it was more of a degreaser than an anti-corrosive.
Dave in Quincy, Ca. I love Pics!!!! Post them All!!! :)
Join the Ford Model AA Truck Club - membership form at http://www.fmaatc.org
ModelAkid
Posts: 478
Joined: June 3rd, 2013, 6:15 pm
Body Type: 186-B stake
Model Year: 1931
Location: LHC Arizona & UP Michigan

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by ModelAkid »

1crosscut, great advice for overheating problems. One thing you did not mention is a problem I have had a few times: if a mouse gets in a radiator or a block, because the cap was left off or a hose was left off, they love to get in those spaces and build nests. Definitely will cause major overheating, and difficult to clean out.
AA GUYS: never leave an entrance for mice. Plug holes in radiators and blocks in storage. One thing mice will not chew through is greasy, oily rags. Yes those old oily rags have an important use, use them to plug your radiator and block cooling hose connections. The oily the better.
KimVanOrder
Posts: 753
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
Model Year: 1928
Location: Hamilton, Mich.

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by KimVanOrder »

Thanks for all the tips. A quick Question..

It was mentioned to "Open GAV if running lean". What is GAV ? I'm not up on my TLAs.

Also what Temp. should a model A system run at? Has to be below 212 Deg. But what should it be?

Also should I order the fan shroud to enhance cooling?

Got to get it ready for the Labor Day Parade.

Thanks again...

KVO
KVO
Dec. '28 AA
ModelAkid
Posts: 478
Joined: June 3rd, 2013, 6:15 pm
Body Type: 186-B stake
Model Year: 1931
Location: LHC Arizona & UP Michigan

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by ModelAkid »

Another thing is, since you mentioned your radiator needed repair: sometimes some of the "stop-leak" solutions can clog up radiator passages, especially if there is rust in the water. I once tried to seal a cracked block in a '48 Chevy with stop-leak, and it plugged up the whole radiator so bad I had to replace it. One way to check radiator flow would be to remove both hoses, plug the upper outlet, then run a garden hose in the filler. The water should flow freely through the radiator and out the bottom without backing up. Same with the engine, water poured in the top should flow quickly out the side outlet.
KimVanOrder
Posts: 753
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
Model Year: 1928
Location: Hamilton, Mich.

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by KimVanOrder »

1crosscut wrote:Timing too advanced?

Radiator filled with crud.
Pull the radiator out, plug the bottom outlet and put in 1 gallon of straight Simple Green. Slosh it around and let it sit. Do this several times a day for a couple of days or so. Flush well with clean water.

Fins on the radiator loose from the verticle tubes? Not heat transfer if not connected well.

Paint too thick on radiator fins? Again poor heat transfer.

Water level too high causing it to look like it is over heating? Just need enough water to cover the tubes. AA's will puke and steam water out until they find the level they like.

Check to see if it is actually over heating. Get a cheap meat thermometer and stick it in the radiator when "hot".

Get an infrared thermometer and check for hot / cool spots over the entire surface of the radiator cooling fins.

Block plugged with crud? Disconnect upper and lower hoses and flush with strong stream of water from garden hose. Run a 50/50 mix of Simple Green and H2O for a while. Drain and rinse. Possibly refill with vinegar and run that for a while to dissove rust. Rinse well.

Head gasket leaking into cooling system? torque head bolts. Pull fan belt off and look for bubbles while reving engine or get test kit.

Open your GAV if running too lean.

Hope that this helps.

Dave
KVO
Dec. '28 AA
User avatar
captain marty
Posts: 208
Joined: May 13th, 2009, 6:58 pm
Body Type: firetruck
Model Year: 1928
Location: Tulsa

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by captain marty »

The GVA:
Carburetor Adjustment Knob, often called the GAV (Gas Air Valve) inside the cab.
Like mentioned above, if you run too retarded, it will overheat.
Good luck,
Marty
User avatar
1crosscut
Posts: 877
Joined: December 25th, 2010, 7:22 pm
Body Type: 82-A
Model Year: 1929
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by 1crosscut »

spectria wrote:
1crosscut wrote:...Radiator filled with crud. Pull the radiator out, plug the bottom outlet and put in 1 gallon of straight Simple Green. Slosh it around and let it sit. Do this several times a day for a couple of days or so. Flush well with clean water.... Hope that this helps. Dave
Dave, do you know what makes simple green clean in a cooling system? I thought it was more of a degreaser than an anti-corrosive.
It is more of a de-greaser / grime remover. Not any good for rust and hard water deposits but does an excellent job of getting the grease out that finds its way in the radiator from over greasing the water pump.
Dave
------------
Dave
User avatar
1crosscut
Posts: 877
Joined: December 25th, 2010, 7:22 pm
Body Type: 82-A
Model Year: 1929
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by 1crosscut »

KimVanOrder wrote:Thanks for all the tips. A quick Question..

It was mentioned to "Open GAV if running lean". What is GAV ? I'm not up on my TLAs.

Also what Temp. should a model A system run at? Has to be below 212 Deg. But what should it be?

Also should I order the fan shroud to enhance cooling?

Got to get it ready for the Labor Day Parade.

Thanks again...

KVO
Temperature on A's will run anywhere from the 160's and up. I would guess the average is 175 ish. Mine tends to run under 170.
------------
Dave
KimVanOrder
Posts: 753
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
Model Year: 1928
Location: Hamilton, Mich.

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by KimVanOrder »

anyone have a dissertation on timing, adv. or retarted and what runs hotter and what it should be at.

Info and or advice?

kvo
KVO
Dec. '28 AA
Reds34
Posts: 603
Joined: May 15th, 2010, 2:34 pm
Body Type: dump
Model Year: 1930
Location: Eastern, CT

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by Reds34 »

I know Marco has a good write up on timing over on the Fordbarn.

Red
Bob C
Posts: 1442
Joined: April 24th, 2003, 11:50 am
Body Type: Mail truck, Stake tr
Model Year: 1931
Location: SO CAL

Re: I need some tips on keeping cool

Post by Bob C »

Here is a link to Marco's timing instructions http://www.abarnyard.com/workshop/timing.htm

Here is a link to the owners instruction manual, takes a minute to download. http://www.motormayhem.net/model-a-ford ... rs-manual/

Bob
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