1931 Rear Hub Problem

AA Ford Discussion Group relating to the repair and restoration of your AA Ford.
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JEFF I
Posts: 35
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 5:48 pm
Body Type: Dump & Flatbed
Model Year: 1931
Location: Seattle Wash.

1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by JEFF I » February 9th, 2015, 10:21 am

I bought a 31 AA last fall that had been sitting in dry storage for many years. It rolled fine on and off the trailer and into my carport. I did some tire work recently on the rear end and noticed now the drivers side hub only rotates about an inch each way (with drag) before stopping with a clunk noise , like it is in gear. I pulled the top off the trans and it is in neutral. The passenger side hub spins free along with the drive line and neutral gears in the trans. I have made sure that both the service brake and emergency brake connections are free at the hub but the drum does have a drag to it. I did also back off the brake adjusting nut fully. If it was just a brake shoe dragging I would expect that I could still keep spinning the drum but it stops like its hitting a obstruction and will not budge or change its movement either way. I made one attempt to remove the hub. I only have a large gear puller with two arms and center threaded shaft. I gripped the hub behind the flange where the wheels studs go through. I turned the center screw on the puller about two turns after it was snug. I am afraid of braking the stud flange. Wondering if I should apply heat or look for a different hub puller ? I am in the Seattle area if nearby members have a proper hub puller to lend. Thanks for any advice.

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1crosscut
Posts: 816
Joined: December 25th, 2010, 7:22 pm
Body Type: 82-A
Model Year: 1929
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by 1crosscut » February 9th, 2015, 11:30 am

Jeff- It may be that you have a brake spring broken and it is allowing one of the shoes to bind stopping the drum from turning.
Pulling off a rear hub can be quite a challenge to say the least.

Yes get a beefy 3 leg puller. There are other hub pullers made specifically for this type of removal and others have made custom ones to do this. Others will probably post pictures of their set ups.

If you pull on the flange at the tip of the hub I don't think you will have any worries about breaking it. I've never heard of that happening and I know that I sure did put a heck of a lot of strain on mine with no ill affects. Just don't go prying on the back side of the drum as you will probably warp the drum doing that.

Tighten the puller up really tight and using a large hand sledge whack the center adjusment bolt to jar things loose.
REALLY WHACK IT!!!

Odds are though it will not come off that easy. Now it is time to get the accetaline torch out and start to heat the hub where it contacts the axle shaft. You will most likely generate a lot of smoke duing this process so let the neighbors know so they don't go and call the fire department on you. :)

You will probably need to put quite a bit of heat to it. While hot do some more whacking with the sledge. I ended up using a regular sledge hammer to persuade one of mine to pop off.

Speaking of getting it to "pop off" when they come loose it will do so with a bang and will scare the hell out of you. So make sure you leave the axle nut on just enough to keep it from possibly popping all the way off the axle.

I ended up doing a few heat and beat sessions letting it cool down completely in between before I got it to pop off.

So when it breaks loose the odds are that it still will not just slide off the axle because the brake shoes will not get past the ridge that usually builds up on the inside of the brake drum.

To get the drum past the ridge back off the adjustment all the way like you have already done and use the torch to gently warm the outside of the drum itself. Just play the torch around and around the drum warming it to make it expand a bit. Usually this will do the trick. Just be patient and get a good even warm heat to the drum. Along with expanding the drum the heat will soften any hardend grease blocking the drum from passing over the shoes.

Good luck!
------------
Dave

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1crosscut
Posts: 816
Joined: December 25th, 2010, 7:22 pm
Body Type: 82-A
Model Year: 1929
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by 1crosscut » February 9th, 2015, 11:33 am

Also Jeff if you have the adjuster backed all the way out try turning it in a half click or so. Sometimes I've found that the adjuster can lock up the brake shoes in between adjustment "clicks".
------------
Dave

ModelAkid
Posts: 478
Joined: June 3rd, 2013, 6:15 pm
Body Type: 186-B stake
Model Year: 1931
Location: SoCal
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Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by ModelAkid » February 9th, 2015, 11:43 am

Jeff be careful with that torch. There is likely plenty of gear oil leaked past the seal into the drum and on the brake shoes and heat from a torch could get a nice fire going inside there (have hot dogs & marshmallows ready). There is a Ford tool made by KRW for removing the AA drums, I see them on ebay occasionally.

Bob C
Posts: 1279
Joined: April 24th, 2003, 11:50 am
Body Type: Mail truck, Stake tr
Model Year: 1931
Location: SO CAL

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by Bob C » February 9th, 2015, 1:03 pm


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JEFF I
Posts: 35
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 5:48 pm
Body Type: Dump & Flatbed
Model Year: 1931
Location: Seattle Wash.

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by JEFF I » February 9th, 2015, 2:05 pm

Thanks guys for all the info and ideas. It sure helps to see what others have done to battle this task. I'll keep working at it.

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Farrell In Vancouver
Posts: 306
Joined: February 23rd, 2011, 6:52 am
Body Type: Deck
Model Year: 1931
Location: Vancouver BC Canada

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by Farrell In Vancouver » February 10th, 2015, 8:49 am

I have a little tip that may help you. If you have and old buggered hub cap, screw it on and drill a hole in it to accept the straw from your favorite penetrant oil. Fill it up after you have laid the heat to it and go have a beer or two. The hub cap acts like a resevoir to hold the penetrant against the hub and shaft untill it get pulled in during cooling. You can plug the drilled hole and rotate it to get all around coverage. I don't know how much it helped me, but after five solid days dealing with a stuck rear drum, it finally came off and I didn't care anymore.
Cheers!

KimVanOrder
Posts: 597
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
Model Year: 1928
Location: Hamilton, Mich.

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by KimVanOrder » February 11th, 2015, 4:57 pm

My suggestion: Soak it with penetrating oil, Put a good puller on it and put some presure on with the puller. Then tap on it to give it some vibration to get the Penitrating oil to move in and then more preasure, Tap tap tap. Couple hundred of them. and it should pop off some time. I wish there was an ultrasonic vibrator that could be attached to such problems. Good luck..

KVO
KVO
Dec. '28 AA

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Chris Haynes
Posts: 2083
Joined: September 7th, 2003, 5:18 pm
Body Type: 82A
Model Year: 1930
Location: North Hills, CA/ Pine Grove, CA

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by Chris Haynes » February 11th, 2015, 8:03 pm

I have to genuine Ford drum puller. But shipping would not be cheap.

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JEFF I
Posts: 35
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 5:48 pm
Body Type: Dump & Flatbed
Model Year: 1931
Location: Seattle Wash.

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by JEFF I » February 11th, 2015, 8:47 pm

Thanks Chris , I found one today. I have a friend that had some wood spoke wheels restored by a local guy here and I went with him today to pick them up. As my friend was paying the bill , I looked over at a table full of at leased a dozen styles of hub pullers .... and found the correct style that threads onto the hub cap threads. My lucky day ..... he gave it to me !

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Chris Haynes
Posts: 2083
Joined: September 7th, 2003, 5:18 pm
Body Type: 82A
Model Year: 1930
Location: North Hills, CA/ Pine Grove, CA

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by Chris Haynes » February 11th, 2015, 9:26 pm

JEFF I wrote: and found the correct style that threads onto the hub cap threads. My lucky day ..... he gave it to me !
That is not the correct puller. Good luck with it.

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spectria
Posts: 1874
Joined: May 15th, 2008, 9:53 pm
Body Type: Mail Truck, Stakebed
Model Year: 1931
Location: Quincy, Ca.

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by spectria » February 11th, 2015, 9:38 pm

JEFF I wrote:Thanks Chris , I found one today. I have a friend that had some wood spoke wheels restored by a local guy here and I went with him today to pick them up. As my friend was paying the bill , I looked over at a table full of at leased a dozen styles of hub pullers .... and found the correct style that threads onto the hub cap threads. My lucky day ..... he gave it to me !
The thread on puller won't likely give enough pull, but give it a try. The heavy puller Chris mentions is a monster for this task, you may need one.
All of the suggestions above are terrific; vibration, penetrant and pulling, with heat should get er done... and some patience...
Dave in Quincy, Ca. I love Pics!!!! Post them All!!! :)
Join the Ford Model AA Truck Club - membership form at http://www.fmaatc.org

RustydoubleA
Posts: 108
Joined: June 18th, 2014, 10:22 pm
Body Type: express
Model Year: 1930
Location: N. Calif.

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by RustydoubleA » February 11th, 2015, 10:22 pm

Hi, years ago I made a couple of special offset wheels to transport power wagons on a tow dolly. I cut down 19" Model A rims and made a center for the power wagon bolt pattern, which happens to be the same small Budd bolt pattern as the AA truck. I am not doing the power wagon thing anymore so I modified one of the rims to become a rear hub puller. You do not need a whole rim, just cut a center disc out of 3/8" plate. After cutting the center hub hole, drill or burn the five stud holes. I tapped the 3 puller holes into the plate and then welded nuts over them as well to give a lot of thread support. I used a very large diameter bolt w/nut and welded the nut to the top plate. The picture show this well, and I never have misplaced this puller (tripped over it a lot). This puller works great! I suppose on stubborn hubs you could apply some heat, but not red, 400 degrees should work. Steve.
I am attaching another photo of the puller. Also, the plate that bolts to the hub is 5/16", the upper plate is 1/2", the large bolt is 1", and the three bolts with nuts welded the the hub plate are 7/16". Good luck with your hubs! Steve.
Attachments
puller2.jpg
puller2.jpg (357.9 KiB) Viewed 3068 times
puller.jpg
puller.jpg (264.03 KiB) Viewed 3095 times

KimVanOrder
Posts: 597
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
Model Year: 1928
Location: Hamilton, Mich.

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by KimVanOrder » February 12th, 2015, 2:48 pm

Remember, for more pulling power use a fine thread. (If your making or rebuilding a puller). And Lube the threads very well.
KVO
Dec. '28 AA

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JEFF I
Posts: 35
Joined: February 1st, 2010, 5:48 pm
Body Type: Dump & Flatbed
Model Year: 1931
Location: Seattle Wash.

Re: 1931 Rear Hub Problem

Post by JEFF I » February 12th, 2015, 4:05 pm

Thanks everyone for all the great tips. Today I put heat to it and what ever was stuck broke free with out taking the hub off. I'll go with that for now but if it acts up again I of course might need to remove the hub in the future.

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