1928 transmission thrust washers

[Stakebed]

Well upon tracking down the knocking noise in my AA first drive video I have deducted it is something to do with the internals of the trans.
With dual high in neutral It makes identical sound as the video in 1st reverse and 2nd gear. 3rd gear the noise is barely audible if at all. 3rd gear just locks input shaft to output shaft bypassing the load into the cluster gear. It still spins but virtually no load on it besides moving thru the fluid.

Thinking great I've got a bad bearing but I wasnt convinced as it was way to clocklike in nature and sounded too "heavy" to be one of those little roller bearings. So I looked in the parts catalogs to see what bearings cost and see these thrust washers for what some suppliers say 28 only some say 28 early 29. Knowing AA trucks got leftover parts, mine is a March 29, and the fact I have no idea the history of this trans or how many times its been apart or if someones gone switcharoo with parts I very well could need them and would make sense if the cluster gear was hitting something. They were not present when I took the trans apart...

http://www.snydersantiqueauto.com/thrust-washer

^^^ washers in question^^^

SO I popped the shifter tower off and used light force to see if there was end play in the cluster gear:

https://youtu.be/p32QXbOTPA4

Video isnt clear I know but you can see the cluster moving as I lightly pry it forward and back. I'm guessing that's not normal as it seems a bit excessive... Am I right?

[macswoods]

I remember when I rebuilt the 3speed in my 29 Tudor (same trans as early truck)that the cases are different. The early cases used the "thrust washers"or spacers,but later cases had bosses in the case to eliminate the need of the spacers. I had two cases 1 with and 1 without the bosses.
Could be the problem ??? Mac.....

[Stakebed]

I sure hope so, Luckily i think i came up with a plan to be able to run it VIA electric drill powering it.

My plan is to get it back out of the truck (guh) then before doing anything hook the input to a drill and run it in the gears. (remove U joint obviously) and hopefully recreate the noise even if its just a little bit. If so great i have a comparison to measure it against so i can install thrust washers if they will fit and see if the noise goes away or not.

Now heres a kicker: Would you guys replace all the bearings regardless?

Im thinking at least the main bearings to the newer sealed bearing style then removing the inner seal to prevent leaks later in life. But the caged roller bearings I've seen and heard some horror stories about the "new" bearings... Opinions?

[1crosscut]

I would encourage you to replace all of the bearings. Make sure the shafts where the roller bearings ride are not worn out of specs. If so replace those as needed.
Pulling the transmission is a chore no matter what approach you take to get it out. If you haven't already done so on your first rebuild get the parts necessary to prevent the leaks at the end of the shafts that protrude out the rear of the case and the ones for the shift rods in the front.
If you don't want to purchase the parts necessary to seal the shafts at the rear you can clean them and the area around them REALLY well prior to putting any lube in the transmission and carefully work black silicone gasket maker around them.

[Stakebed]

Has anyone had issues with the made in USA roller bearings Brattons and Snyders sells? Ive seen some horror pics of rollers that fall out or the cage wallows out etc.

Yea stupid me I've had this trans apart once years ago cleaned everything up and replaced some parts then. Then earlier this year I decided to buckle down and replace both main shafts with ones with O rings on the rear. Somehow didnt notice the slop first 2 times...

How much fluid actually gets out of the tower shift rods? I know the kit thing your talking about but I just cant see that much fluid getting up there...

I like the idea of using the sealed ball bearings for input and output shafts.

I really want to order all the stuff now so I have it and can get the trans back in the truck next weekend but I'm hoping with it thudding like it was it didn't damage my new main shafts but wont know till its out...

[1crosscut]

Enough got past the shift rods on mine to make a mess. Not a big mess but an easy one to make go away.

[Stakebed]

Hmm ic, Do you have the felt pad on top of the wishbone ball? I've been told the little bit that leaks out is supposed to saturate that felt pad and lube the ball.

[1crosscut]

Generally there is enough engine oil coming out of the rear main to take care of that. No need to supplement it with 600 wt.

[Stakebed]

gotcha, yea ill get the seal.

[Stakebed]

Well got trans out and all apart. Mine is the early-mid 29 case with the cast bosses for the input/output bearings but has the machined area for the main gear so I dont need the thrust washers... Ive heard people took up the main gear end play using kingpin shims. Is that an acceptable practice?

[Stakebed]

Bit of an update: replaced all the bearings, shafts with O rings were new 5 months ago so reused those. I did find a different input shaft and ended up replacing the reverse idler gear as one i found was ever so slightly better than mine. The 2 sliding gears and main cluster i chucked up in a lathe spinning true to the centerline and squared up the teeth. The edges had a bit of a curve to them from years of clashing which ive heard can be a cause of noise.

I was amazed at how untrue the gear teeth were in relation were to the center where the roller bearings ride! I didnt take much off - pretty much just a hair to square it up on the ends and to where i could just hear it contact the bit in the middle theres about 1/2 the gear or sometimes 2-3 spots that never touched the bit...

Re-cleaned everything to get the grit off, new bearings and assembled with rtv on thru bolt threads and copper spray gasket on the paper gaskets. Before I put the top on I put about a cup of 600W on the gears and gave it a spin - amazing how quiet it is now!

I still want to come up with a plan to spin the transmission while its off the engine to see if it still makes noise. I dont think it will but i dont want to put it all together to find out it still does... ANY IDEAS???

[KimVanOrder]

chuck the input shaft In the lathe?

[Stakebed]

i would but I dont think work would like that haha. Plus I dont think it would fit on top of the lathe...But you did give me an idea - I can make a crude "adapter" that fits on the end of the input shaft that is down to a normal 3/8" chuck will accept. Got all sorts of scrap junk to make it out of...