Canadian Timken differential

AA Ford Discussion Group relating to the repair and restoration of your AA Ford.
pinesdune
Posts: 56
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 5:18 pm
Model Year: 1930

Canadian Timken differential

Post by pinesdune » February 6th, 2018, 10:38 am

Hi guys, I’ve been getting some work done to the AA since it went sub zero here the last few months, rebuilding the front and rear suspension and the steering but I finally tracked down a diff for my AA out in Dawson Creek BC, so I made the trip last weekend (1700 km one way) as well as a proper cab out in Edmonton, so it was a good trip.

Lots of folks have not seen one of these diffs, so I thought I’d post pics of the tear down of the one I just got home as well as the rebuild when I get started

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Last edited by pinesdune on February 6th, 2018, 10:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

flatford39
Posts: 436
Joined: September 24th, 2009, 3:06 pm
Body Type: Express
Model Year: 1928
Location: NE Illinois

Re: Canadian Timken differential

Post by flatford39 » February 6th, 2018, 1:30 pm

That ting looks pretty clean inside. Thanks for posting. Never saw the insides of one before.

Stakebed
Posts: 1143
Joined: June 14th, 2007, 7:29 pm
Body Type: Grainbox
Model Year: 1929
Location: Illinois

Re: Canadian Timken differential

Post by Stakebed » February 6th, 2018, 6:42 pm

flatford39 wrote:
February 6th, 2018, 1:30 pm
That ting looks pretty clean inside. Thanks for posting. Never saw the insides of one before.
agreed - thanks for the pics! These had an open driveshaft correct?

marcel kristoff
Posts: 27
Joined: October 26th, 2014, 1:00 pm
Body Type: flat deck
Model Year: 1928
Location: Fort St. John, BC, Canada

Re: Canadian Timken differential

Post by marcel kristoff » February 7th, 2018, 3:33 pm

Wow. I’m only 45 mins away from Dawson Creek. My AA has the same rear end. Can I ask who you bought it from?

pinesdune
Posts: 56
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 5:18 pm
Model Year: 1930

Canadian Timken differential

Post by pinesdune » February 7th, 2018, 7:06 pm

marcel kristoff wrote:Wow. I’m only 45 mins away from Dawson Creek. My AA has the same rear end. Can I ask who you bought it from?

PM’d you


And yes Stakebed, they have an open drive shaft

User avatar
1crosscut
Posts: 726
Joined: December 25th, 2010, 7:22 pm
Body Type: 82-A
Model Year: 1929
Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: Canadian Timken differential

Post by 1crosscut » February 8th, 2018, 9:37 am

Nice to see the inside of something like this. I posted some pictures of the differential in my 29 AA a few years ago.
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=3844&p=20582&hilit= ... ive#p20582
Perhaps when you get yours all sorted out you could lay it out similar to what I did and we could combine them.
If someone could do the 30/31 bevel drive it would be pretty neat.
------------
Dave

Stakebed
Posts: 1143
Joined: June 14th, 2007, 7:29 pm
Body Type: Grainbox
Model Year: 1929
Location: Illinois

Re: Canadian Timken differential

Post by Stakebed » February 8th, 2018, 5:03 pm

Since they had an open driveshaft how were they connected to the frame? just the leaf springs like modern trucks? I see a pretty stout bar that has been torched off in your pic...

pinesdune
Posts: 56
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 5:18 pm
Model Year: 1930

Re: Canadian Timken differential

Post by pinesdune » February 8th, 2018, 7:36 pm

Stakebed wrote:Since they had an open driveshaft how were they connected to the frame? just the leaf springs like modern trucks? I see a pretty stout bar that has been torched off in your pic...
I am pretty sure it connects the same way any other AA diff did, two 1” pins through the back of each leaf spring to the top of the diff, but without the torque tube and radius arms, it uses that large long arm as a stabilizer to the front spring mount on the drivers side, I’ll post lots of pics as I re assemble it, I just got some of the rear suspension parts back from the welding shop today and hope to be ready for reassembly some time next week. Here’s pics of an AA fire truck in a museum in Winnipeg that I was able to get so I had something to help see how it all fits together.

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drtrcrV-8
Posts: 48
Joined: October 16th, 2013, 9:22 am
Body Type: open
Model Year: 1928

Re: Canadian Timken differential

Post by drtrcrV-8 » February 8th, 2018, 11:18 pm

Could you please furnish the gear ratios available for the Canadian rear axle gear sets when new(as well as the gear set you are working with)?

pinesdune
Posts: 56
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 5:18 pm
Model Year: 1930

Re: Canadian Timken differential

Post by pinesdune » February 9th, 2018, 11:43 am

Pinion gear has 5 teeth, ring gear has 31 on the BC diff, part number on the pinion is 33589, and 33838 on the ring gear
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The gear set out of the truck as well as the parts truck both are 5-34 ratio and part number H1062 on the pinion and H1061A on the ring gear Image
I believe these two have Republic gear sets in them

drtrcrV-8
Posts: 48
Joined: October 16th, 2013, 9:22 am
Body Type: open
Model Year: 1928

Re: Canadian Timken differential

Post by drtrcrV-8 » February 9th, 2018, 7:59 pm

Pinesdune : Thank you for the ratios. I was curious how "deep" they would be. The only way to use them today in other than a "backroads only" or "yard truck" would certainly require some sort of overdrive, if not a combination of overdrives!! Although, with the open driveline it would certainly be easier to adapt than with the Ford torque-tube!!

pinesdune
Posts: 56
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 5:18 pm
Model Year: 1930

Re: Canadian Timken differential

Post by pinesdune » March 21st, 2018, 6:05 am

Truck update, I removed the rear suspension pivots and took them to a welding shop and had them and the bolts built up, as well as new bushings installed. Got the rivets I needed and finally managed to find time to get it all back together
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Here's various pics I have collected so far for reference

This is a view into the housing from the axel end without the bearing race installed showing the internal seal and grease passage from the nipple on the axel
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And some pics of the diff itself
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I'll grab pics all along the way of the reassembly with reference to bearing numbers and seals, I'm not replacing the seals between the diff housing and the wheel bearings, the originals look fine and the fact that the outer wheel bearings are packed with grease, if a bit of oil gets in there it won't harm anything and I found a fit for the outer most seal. If anyone wants me to post any specific info as I go, just ask, have a good one.
Malcolm

User avatar
Chris Haynes
Posts: 1952
Joined: September 7th, 2003, 5:18 pm
Body Type: 82A
Model Year: 1930
Location: North Hills, CA/ Pine Grove, CA

Re: Canadian Timken differential

Post by Chris Haynes » March 21st, 2018, 8:45 am

pinesdune wrote:
February 8th, 2018, 7:36 pm
Stakebed wrote:Since they had an open driveshaft how were they connected to the frame? just the leaf springs like modern trucks? I see a pretty stout bar that has been torched off in your pic...
I am pretty sure it connects the same way any other AA diff did, two 1” pins through the back of each leaf spring to the top of the diff, but without the torque tube and radius arms, it uses that large long arm as a stabilizer to the front spring mount on the drivers side, I’ll post lots of pics as I re assemble it, I just got some of the rear suspension parts back from the welding shop today and hope to be ready for reassembly some time next week. Here’s pics of an AA fire truck in a museum in Winnipeg that I was able to get so I had something to help see how it all fits together.

Image
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Seeing pictures of this museum truck with the filthy dirty undercarriage reminded me of a trip to The Nethercutt Collection in Sylmar, CA. I was watching a woman who's job it was to keep the vehicles clean. Not only the topside, but on her cart of polishes and cleaners she had a creeper that she used keeping the underside dust free too.
http://www.nethercuttcollection.org/Visitor.aspx

pinesdune
Posts: 56
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 5:18 pm
Model Year: 1930

Canadian Timken differential

Post by pinesdune » March 21st, 2018, 2:32 pm

Just more assembly pics,
Pinion assembly, notice the lip on the input shaft side, it receives a cork seal that seals the cover with the pinion shaft seal to the housing.
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Pumpkin housing showing the Hyatt 7203 steady bearing and OR305 race for the rear of the pinion shaft as well as the retainer
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Pumpkin assembled and bearing preloads set but I still have to check the tooth contact pattern.
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Notice the bearing retainer rings, they are threaded allowing east side to side movement of the carrier assembly and preload adjustments. And the bearing caps, they are machined as a set with the housing, if you ever have one apart, try not to mix them up, yup, speaking as one who mixed them up haha

Stakebed
Posts: 1143
Joined: June 14th, 2007, 7:29 pm
Body Type: Grainbox
Model Year: 1929
Location: Illinois

Re: Canadian Timken differential

Post by Stakebed » March 22nd, 2018, 1:56 pm

Awesome job - thanks for the pics! Keep the updates commin.

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