Coolant system question!

AA Ford Discussion Group relating to the repair and restoration of your AA Ford.
Cschaff63
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Model Year: 1928
Location: Pa

Coolant system question!

Post by Cschaff63 » August 9th, 2019, 3:58 pm

Does anybody know how many GPM the model a water pump
moves?

KimVanOrder
Posts: 594
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
Model Year: 1928
Location: Hamilton, Mich.

Re: Coolant system question!

Post by KimVanOrder » August 9th, 2019, 5:29 pm

not enough! :shock:
KVO
Dec. '28 AA

KimVanOrder
Posts: 594
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
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Re: Coolant system question!

Post by KimVanOrder » August 9th, 2019, 6:11 pm

I take that back, Too much. The replacement can be had with Std. or 'cut down' veins. cut down are so they don't move too much and pump out the over flow tube. Do you have a heat problem?
KVO
Dec. '28 AA

Cschaff63
Posts: 77
Joined: September 14th, 2017, 5:57 pm
Body Type: Dump
Model Year: 1928
Location: Pa

Re: Coolant system question!

Post by Cschaff63 » August 9th, 2019, 7:21 pm

KimVanOrder wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 6:11 pm
I take that back, Too much. The replacement can be had with Std. or 'cut down' veins. cut down are so they don't move too much and pump out the over flow tube. Do you have a heat problem?
It starts puking out the overflow before it even warms up. I had a 6 lb pressure cap on it and the pressure blew a tear in the upper hose. The radiator is new. Pump is a leak less pump. My timing was off though, so waiting for new radiator hose now

Cschaff63
Posts: 77
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Body Type: Dump
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Location: Pa

Re: Coolant system question!

Post by Cschaff63 » August 9th, 2019, 7:22 pm

Also, engine is new rebuild with high compression head

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1crosscut
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Location: Lincoln, NE

Re: Coolant system question!

Post by 1crosscut » August 9th, 2019, 8:14 pm

If this is a stock Model A engine then you should not be using a pressurized cap. Even then a pressurized cap shouldn't cause pressure to build up as the overflow tube should prevent pressure from building up.

If you fill your radiator to the top of the neck it will puke coolant out right away. Model A radiators don't like to be filled to the top and they will purge coolant out until they find the level they like. As long as it is above the tubes in the radiator you do not need to add any coolant. Quit adding coolant and just keep an eye on it until it settles in to where it wants to be.
------------
Dave

Cschaff63
Posts: 77
Joined: September 14th, 2017, 5:57 pm
Body Type: Dump
Model Year: 1928
Location: Pa

Re: Coolant system question!

Post by Cschaff63 » August 10th, 2019, 4:50 am

1crosscut wrote:
August 9th, 2019, 8:14 pm
If this is a stock Model A engine then you should not be using a pressurized cap. Even then a pressurized cap shouldn't cause pressure to build up as the overflow tube should prevent pressure from building up.

If you fill your radiator to the top of the neck it will puke coolant out right away. Model A radiators don't like to be filled to the top and they will purge coolant out until they find the level they like. As long as it is above the tubes in the radiator you do not need to add any coolant. Quit adding coolant and just keep an eye on it until it settles in to where it wants to be.
Yes, I figured the original Model A radiators utilizes the upper tank as the expansion tank, so I figured I would add a puke tank to the new radiator ( it came with a 6 lb cap). It pushed out over a gallon of water on its first real road trip at about 10 miles into it. I did however discover that the timing was too far advanced at that time. I have not had it out on road since adjusting timing. The engine is a fresh rebuild with Snyder high compression head, oversized intake valves, Weber downdraft carb system, insert bearings.

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1crosscut
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Re: Coolant system question!

Post by 1crosscut » August 10th, 2019, 5:52 am

Timing will not affect water being pushed out of the radiator. That said if your timing is too retarded it will cause it to overheat and then that will cause issues.

If your set up caused the upper hose to split you are very lucky that the hose split and not your radiator. Model A radiators are not designed to operate under pressure. Doing so you risk ruining your radiator.

I'm starting to suspect two things here. One you have filled your radiator too full. Second your head needs to be re-torqued. Have you checked the torque? I re-torque a fresh head install several times between heat cycles before taking it out onto the road.
With the radiator cap off and the engine running look for bubbles.

Also get a cheap dial meat thermometer and check your water temperature to be sure it is not overheating.

In my opinion you should not need the overflow tank and should definitely ditch the pressure cap.
------------
Dave

Cschaff63
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Re: Coolant system question!

Post by Cschaff63 » August 10th, 2019, 7:33 am

1crosscut wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 5:52 am
Timing will not affect water being pushed out of the radiator. That said if your timing is too retarded it will cause it to overheat and then that will cause issues.

If your set up caused the upper hose to split you are very lucky that the hose split and not your radiator. Model A radiators are not designed to operate under pressure. Doing so you risk ruining your radiator.

I'm starting to suspect two things here. One you have filled your radiator too full. Second your head needs to be re-torqued. Have you checked the torque? I re-torque a fresh head install several times between heat cycles before taking it out onto the road.
With the radiator cap off and the engine running look for bubbles.

Also get a cheap dial meat thermometer and check your water temperature to be sure it is not overheating.

In my opinion you should not need the overflow tank and should definitely ditch the pressure cap.
I have gotten rid of pressure cap, have re-torqued the head bolts getting ready to replace hose and try it all again, thank you for the input, confirms all of my suspicions so far. This is what I get for trying to second guess ole Henry!

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Chris Haynes
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Re: Coolant system question!

Post by Chris Haynes » August 10th, 2019, 10:38 am

I had my A radiator Pressurized. I also installed a fan shroud. The temperature always stays mid range even when in the Fourth of July parade on a 100 degree day. My cooling system has been flushed and de-rusted with RUST911.

Cschaff63
Posts: 77
Joined: September 14th, 2017, 5:57 pm
Body Type: Dump
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Location: Pa

Re: Coolant system question!

Post by Cschaff63 » August 10th, 2019, 11:32 am

Chris Haynes wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 10:38 am
I had my A radiator Pressurized. I also installed a fan shroud. The temperature always stays mid range even when in the Fourth of July parade on a 100 degree day. My cooling system has been flushed and de-rusted with RUST911.
Are you running the 2 blade fan also? I’m thinking my next step is a shroud. It stays mid to high driving range, but then spikes on an uphill run

KimVanOrder
Posts: 594
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
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Re: Coolant system question!

Post by KimVanOrder » August 10th, 2019, 5:36 pm

Cschaff63 wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 11:32 am
Chris Haynes wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 10:38 am
I had my A radiator Pressurized. I also installed a fan shroud. The temperature always stays mid range even when in the Fourth of July parade on a 100 degree day. My cooling system has been flushed and de-rusted with RUST911.
Are you running the 2 blade fan also? I’m thinking my next step is a shroud. It stays mid to high driving range, but then spikes on an uphill run
I run a two blade fan, and a fan shroud. 50% antifreeze mix. The water level settled out just below the top of the tubes. I also found an article that calls for opening up the water passage at the inlet to the block. It say's to have a 5/8" space. in a service manual.
KVO
Dec. '28 AA

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Chris Haynes
Posts: 2083
Joined: September 7th, 2003, 5:18 pm
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Location: North Hills, CA/ Pine Grove, CA

Re: Coolant system question!

Post by Chris Haynes » August 11th, 2019, 3:51 pm

Cschaff63 wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 11:32 am
Chris Haynes wrote:
August 10th, 2019, 10:38 am
I had my A radiator Pressurized. I also installed a fan shroud. The temperature always stays mid range even when in the Fourth of July parade on a 100 degree day. My cooling system has been flushed and de-rusted with RUST911.
Are you running the 2 blade fan also? I’m thinking my next step is a shroud. It stays mid to high driving range, but then spikes on an uphill run
I was running the Ford 4 blade fan. Now I am installing a rebuilt engine and going back the the original style 2 blade, which I have been told moves more air.

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Chris Haynes
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Location: North Hills, CA/ Pine Grove, CA

Re: Coolant system question!

Post by Chris Haynes » August 11th, 2019, 3:53 pm

[/quote]

I run a two blade fan, and a fan shroud. 50% antifreeze mix. The water level settled out just below the top of the tubes. I also found an article that calls for opening up the water passage at the inlet to the block. It say's to have a 5/8" space. in a service manual.
[/quote]

I am not understanding the " It say's to have a 5/8" space.". Can you explain this better?

KimVanOrder
Posts: 594
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
Model Year: 1928
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Re: Coolant system question!

Post by KimVanOrder » August 12th, 2019, 4:14 pm

Chris Haynes wrote:
August 11th, 2019, 3:53 pm
I run a two blade fan, and a fan shroud. 50% antifreeze mix. The water level settled out just below the top of the tubes. I also found an article that calls for opening up the water passage at the inlet to the block. It say's to have a 5/8" space. in a service manual.
[/quote]

I am not understanding the " It say's to have a 5/8" space.". Can you explain this better?
[/quote]When you take off the side inlet casting and look inside you will see a bart of the block that is supposed to force more water toward the rear cylinders. The service statement says to grind that "fin" back so there is a 5/8" clearance. This is supposed to let more water flow.


I have not modified mine yet as i finaly got it to run a bit cooler. I think much of the key to run cooler is to flush the system very well. Do it several times. Also i finally got a new Radiator. 50/50 antifreeze and a bottle of 'Water Wetter". I just checked it today and am running at 245 deg. F.. Hot but works... You can hear it gurgling when i shut it off, so it is boiling inside, but dosn't seem to a problem.. i think i'll flush it again and see if that helps...

Good luck..
KVO
Dec. '28 AA

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