I have a 29 style cab and it is on a cart completely in primer. I have the passenger door near complete and decided to fit it up on the cab. When I did the door would not close due to hitting the new wood installed for the roof. I can pull down on the door and push it to close against the wood at the top but when it is fully tight at the top, the bottom end away from the hinge sticks out about 3/4 of an inch.
Any suggestions?
29 style cab door fit problems.
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Neil Wilson
- Posts: 3062
- Joined: February 5th, 2003, 9:42 pm
- Body Type: 82-A/89-A
- Model Year: 1930
- Location: Boulder, CO
- Contact:
Re: 29 style cab door fit problems.
Hello s147881,
The cab doors can not be aligned off the frame! Below is some documentation regarding the hood and door alignment which may help. If the cab is not square at the top, then door alignment will not be possible.
Ford 82-A Closed Cab – On AA Chassis
Pre-Alignment:
The AA frame side members must be flat on top at the rear motor mounts. Sagging at this location is a common problem for the A but usually not the AA. If the tops of the frame side members are not flat, then cab door alignment and hood alignment will be a problem since cab shims are required just to resolve the frame problem.
The AA frame side members must be straight on the sides and mounting bolt holes must be square. Cross measurements should be made from several locations like the radiator mounting holes to the body bolt mounting holes. If the mounting holes are not square, then hood alignment will be a problem. This needs to be done before engine and cab installation.
The door openings must have the same width at the bottom and top (28-1/2” is the measurement on three of my 82-A cabs. The door hinges must not be bent. Bending the lower hinge was a common adjustment used to resolve a sagging door problem.
A friend suggested that the radiator bolt holes in the front cross member be made oblong to allow the radiator to be moved slightly left to right. However, this may allow the radiator to move later on. So, I would probably not do this unless all else fails.
My recommendation is to use rubber pads with fabric in the center. The rubber pads without fabric are basically junk parts because they compress when the body bolts are tightened! The rubber pads go on the bottom of the body blocks except the front pads which go between the body and splash apron.
Use additional rubber pads the same size as the initial pads as shims. From what I know, this is the way Ford did it since I have found body blocks with two and three pads nailed on.
Alignment should be accomplished prior to any final color paint and it is best to do before in final primer!
With the cab bolted in place (solid to frame and doors installed), the hood installed, and the appropriate pads between the radiator and frame, an assessment can be made to determine where to start alignment.
Hood Alignment:
Hood alignment is accomplished by adding shims to the radiator and/or at the cab front body bolt. It is best if the front body bolt location is not shimmed. Raising the front of the body much at all will present problems in hooking the hood latches.
A shim at both sides of the radiator moves the hood rear, bottom corners away for the cab and the hood front, bottom corners toward the radiator shell.
A shim at both sides of the cab front body bolt moves the hood rear, bottom corners toward the cab and the hood front, bottom corners away for the radiator shell.
A shim at one sides of the radiator or one side of the cab front body bolt has a twisting effect to the lower corners of the hood.
Door Alignment:
With the cab bolted to the frame as described above, the belt rails on the doors should align with the belt rails on the quarter panel. Miss alignment is due to the door openings not being square with the door (assuming hinges have been straightened). If a door belt rail is too low (the usual situation), then shims under the hinge pillar will cause the back of the door to rise. If the door belt rail is too high, then shims under the rear, body bolt causes the rear of the cab to rise.
Assuming that your cab is square (side to side) and there is an unequal space between the rear edges of the doors and the lock pillars, then the doors are twisted.
When the bottom, rear corner of a door needs to be moved inward, a piece of wood (like a 2x4) is used to block the top, rear edge of the door and the bottom, rear edge can be pushed inward (by hand) to twist the door back into alignment. The opposite blocking and flexing is used when the top of the doors need to be moved inward.
This is a trial and error procedure. So, don’t push too much at a time. Try flexing the door a little and then check the fit. If not enough, then flex the door more. If you over flex the door, then you will need to reverse the process. If you have the door glass installed (hopefully not), it should be lowered before any flexing is done.
Summary:
The alignment process takes more time than you are going to want to spend! But to get good hood and door alignment, the time must be spend. Each time you add a shim, everything needs to be bolted down solid and the situation check again.
If it takes more than two shims at any location, then there might be something else wrong. Also, adding shims under the hinge pillar or at the rear body bolt will mean that shims need to be added to the center body bolt.
If you add several shims under the hinge pillar, then that could affect the hood alignment since it tilts the cowl forward. So, make an overall assessment of the hood and door alignment before starting. If either are seriously out of alignment before any shims are used, then maybe there is a frame problem.
The cab doors can not be aligned off the frame! Below is some documentation regarding the hood and door alignment which may help. If the cab is not square at the top, then door alignment will not be possible.
Ford 82-A Closed Cab – On AA Chassis
Pre-Alignment:
The AA frame side members must be flat on top at the rear motor mounts. Sagging at this location is a common problem for the A but usually not the AA. If the tops of the frame side members are not flat, then cab door alignment and hood alignment will be a problem since cab shims are required just to resolve the frame problem.
The AA frame side members must be straight on the sides and mounting bolt holes must be square. Cross measurements should be made from several locations like the radiator mounting holes to the body bolt mounting holes. If the mounting holes are not square, then hood alignment will be a problem. This needs to be done before engine and cab installation.
The door openings must have the same width at the bottom and top (28-1/2” is the measurement on three of my 82-A cabs. The door hinges must not be bent. Bending the lower hinge was a common adjustment used to resolve a sagging door problem.
A friend suggested that the radiator bolt holes in the front cross member be made oblong to allow the radiator to be moved slightly left to right. However, this may allow the radiator to move later on. So, I would probably not do this unless all else fails.
My recommendation is to use rubber pads with fabric in the center. The rubber pads without fabric are basically junk parts because they compress when the body bolts are tightened! The rubber pads go on the bottom of the body blocks except the front pads which go between the body and splash apron.
Use additional rubber pads the same size as the initial pads as shims. From what I know, this is the way Ford did it since I have found body blocks with two and three pads nailed on.
Alignment should be accomplished prior to any final color paint and it is best to do before in final primer!
With the cab bolted in place (solid to frame and doors installed), the hood installed, and the appropriate pads between the radiator and frame, an assessment can be made to determine where to start alignment.
Hood Alignment:
Hood alignment is accomplished by adding shims to the radiator and/or at the cab front body bolt. It is best if the front body bolt location is not shimmed. Raising the front of the body much at all will present problems in hooking the hood latches.
A shim at both sides of the radiator moves the hood rear, bottom corners away for the cab and the hood front, bottom corners toward the radiator shell.
A shim at both sides of the cab front body bolt moves the hood rear, bottom corners toward the cab and the hood front, bottom corners away for the radiator shell.
A shim at one sides of the radiator or one side of the cab front body bolt has a twisting effect to the lower corners of the hood.
Door Alignment:
With the cab bolted to the frame as described above, the belt rails on the doors should align with the belt rails on the quarter panel. Miss alignment is due to the door openings not being square with the door (assuming hinges have been straightened). If a door belt rail is too low (the usual situation), then shims under the hinge pillar will cause the back of the door to rise. If the door belt rail is too high, then shims under the rear, body bolt causes the rear of the cab to rise.
Assuming that your cab is square (side to side) and there is an unequal space between the rear edges of the doors and the lock pillars, then the doors are twisted.
When the bottom, rear corner of a door needs to be moved inward, a piece of wood (like a 2x4) is used to block the top, rear edge of the door and the bottom, rear edge can be pushed inward (by hand) to twist the door back into alignment. The opposite blocking and flexing is used when the top of the doors need to be moved inward.
This is a trial and error procedure. So, don’t push too much at a time. Try flexing the door a little and then check the fit. If not enough, then flex the door more. If you over flex the door, then you will need to reverse the process. If you have the door glass installed (hopefully not), it should be lowered before any flexing is done.
Summary:
The alignment process takes more time than you are going to want to spend! But to get good hood and door alignment, the time must be spend. Each time you add a shim, everything needs to be bolted down solid and the situation check again.
If it takes more than two shims at any location, then there might be something else wrong. Also, adding shims under the hinge pillar or at the rear body bolt will mean that shims need to be added to the center body bolt.
If you add several shims under the hinge pillar, then that could affect the hood alignment since it tilts the cowl forward. So, make an overall assessment of the hood and door alignment before starting. If either are seriously out of alignment before any shims are used, then maybe there is a frame problem.
Regards, Neil Wilson
______________________________________
aafords.com@gmail.com - use this email for contact
https://aafords.com/
______________________________________
aafords.com@gmail.com - use this email for contact
https://aafords.com/
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Richard Kinney
- Posts: 18
- Joined: February 9th, 2003, 11:53 am
- Model Year: 1930
- Location: up,Mich.
Re: 29 style cab door fit problems.
try to help you. i am a bodyman by trade and have a very nice 29 pickup under my belt. i drove myself nuts for 2 weeks trying to acomplish this same task. after reading some old restorers magazine, found how to check frame for streightness and it was bent. first !!measure the frame at several different sections diagonally for equal measurements (plus or minus 1/8 inch) ie,thru engine section, under the cab, then under the bed to confirm it is square. then to see that is level streight, use a string, tightly drawn across the top surface of each rail, from front to rear. (two man job). from the radiator on back the string should touch. if a sag is less than1/8 inch shim it as neil said. if it is 1/4 or more repair it first. for all you restorers it would be a good idea to do this before the frame is even blasted. helpful hopeful, dick kinney.