Rear leaf to shackle bolts

AA Ford Discussion Group relating to the repair and restoration of your AA Ford.
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Stakebed
Posts: 1187
Joined: June 14th, 2007, 7:29 pm
Body Type: Grainbox
Model Year: 1929
Location: Illinois

Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by Stakebed » March 1st, 2015, 1:56 pm

Does anyone know of a source besides the normal model a parts suppliers for the big 1" od shoulder bolts used to hold the spring shackle to the frame and also to hold the front leaf eye to the shackle?

Anyone have a method of repairing some that are worn where the leaf bushing would ride? Is it possible to weld it up then put it in a lathe but I don't have anyway to get a uniform weld... Spray welding would be ideal but dont know of a source to do this nor how much it would cost...

Do any of you have 2 good ones?

I know the model A suppliers have them @ $40 a piece...

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macswoods
Posts: 281
Joined: May 4th, 2009, 1:20 pm
Body Type: 82-A
Model Year: 1929
Location: Wilhoit, Arizona

Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by macswoods » March 1st, 2015, 3:26 pm

I got grade 5 one inch bolts and cut them down to fit.

Stakebed
Posts: 1187
Joined: June 14th, 2007, 7:29 pm
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Model Year: 1929
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Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by Stakebed » March 1st, 2015, 4:59 pm

ahh good point, somehow i never thought of that...

do they fit as snug as the proper ones?

KimVanOrder
Posts: 606
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
Model Year: 1928
Location: Hamilton, Mich.

Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by KimVanOrder » March 1st, 2015, 5:24 pm

I welded mine up with 6013 rod and filed them back to shape. Drilled a hole in a piece of metal to use as a quide to find high spots and filed them down until it fit then welded, filed, in the low spots. final fitting was with blueing and the bushings to fit. Remember these things bearly move at all so great pression is not needed. Mine were worn about 50% thru. A lathe would make it a lot easier, but I don't have one and did it old school..

KVO
KVO
Dec. '28 AA

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gunmetal 2
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Model Year: 1929

Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by gunmetal 2 » March 2nd, 2015, 7:38 am

The reporduction one's are made out of cool role steel.

Stakebed
Posts: 1187
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Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by Stakebed » March 3rd, 2015, 4:26 pm

ive done some thinking/measuring:

the 1" bolt idea is looking good, exact same dimension that i measured off a ford bolt in a non worn spot.

There are variations of 1" bolts that are 6" long - some the shank (non threaded part) is just a hair longer than the shoulder of the factory AA bolt, some are smaller where about a thread would be inside the bushing which i don't like.

yes the heads of the 1" bolts are bigger but could easily trace the head of the ford bolt and grind down the flats of the new bolt to make a smaller head, obviously cant do the same for the nut but it will be on the inside and unseen.

They do make castle nuts and slotted nuts in 1" size so it will look the part at least.

No one seems to make (besides suppliers) a 1" shoulder bolt where the shoulder is 3.5 inches long...

A coworker of mine suggested to stick with a grade 5 bolt instead of a grade 8, reason being grade 8 bolts are harder and more likely to snap in an impact VS a grade 5 that will bend and give slightly. What are your guys thoughts on this?

I re-evaluated what I have and obviously MUST use the ford bolts that hold the shackle to the frame due to the way it attaches, my problem is i have one good octagon head bolt and 3 OK square head bolts (have wear but not too bad). Can I use a square head bolt in this location? Id imagine that funny washer with the tabs to bend over and lock it in place would still do the same job right?

Ive also thought about finding the thinnest 1"OD bushing i can, lathe the worn bolts down to make a press on interference fit, and thus restoring the OD of the bolt, but how much strength would this compromise? Since all the nut does is keep the bolt from sliding out that part of the bolt is irrelevent, but the shank being turned down and a bushing pressed over it - does that keep the same strength in shear forces? I dont know...


Thanks for your guys help!

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macswoods
Posts: 281
Joined: May 4th, 2009, 1:20 pm
Body Type: 82-A
Model Year: 1929
Location: Wilhoit, Arizona

Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by macswoods » March 3rd, 2015, 8:47 pm

On my springs bolts I cut the nuts in half,then I drilled a hole across the points. Then
safety wire the nut. I could not find castle nuts. Made my own bushings out of brass
plumbing nipples (turned down) . The cost of all those bushings is a lot. Got the truck
on the road, the important thing.

KimVanOrder
Posts: 606
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
Model Year: 1928
Location: Hamilton, Mich.

Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by KimVanOrder » March 4th, 2015, 5:08 pm

Stakebed wrote:ive done some thinking/measuring:

the 1" bolt idea is looking good, exact same dimension that i measured off a ford bolt in a non worn spot.

There are variations of 1" bolts that are 6" long - some the shank (non threaded part) is just a hair longer than the shoulder of the factory AA bolt, some are smaller where about a thread would be inside the bushing which i don't like.

(The one thread inside the bushing will not harm anything).

yes the heads of the 1" bolts are bigger but could easily trace the head of the ford bolt and grind down the flats of the new bolt to make a smaller head, obviously cant do the same for the nut but it will be on the inside and unseen.

They do make castle nuts and slotted nuts in 1" size so it will look the part at least.

No one seems to make (besides suppliers) a 1" shoulder bolt where the shoulder is 3.5 inches long...

A coworker of mine suggested to stick with a grade 5 bolt instead of a grade 8, reason being grade 8 bolts are harder and more likely to snap in an impact VS a grade 5 that will bend and give slightly. What are your guys thoughts on this?

(Use soft bolts).

I re-evaluated what I have and obviously MUST use the ford bolts that hold the shackle to the frame due to the way it attaches, my problem is i have one good octagon head bolt and 3 OK square head bolts (have wear but not too bad). Can I use a square head bolt in this location? Id imagine that funny washer with the tabs to bend over and lock it in place would still do the same job right?

(Yes washer is to lock it. I'd get all new bolts that match).

Ive also thought about finding the thinnest 1"OD bushing i can, lathe the worn bolts down to make a press on interference fit, and thus restoring the OD of the bolt, but how much strength would this compromise?

( not a lot, but some. Do you plan on loading 1.5 tons on it :lol: ) If you have access to a lathe, Weld them up and turn them back to original size. This will save you a lot of other grief).

Since all the nut does is keep the bolt from sliding out that part of the bolt is irrelevent, but the shank being turned down and a bushing pressed over it - does that keep the same strength in shear forces? I dont know...


It will make it marginally weaker. If you do leave a slight radius. Not a sharp corner..


Thanks for your guys help!

Good luck.. KVO
KVO
Dec. '28 AA

Stakebed
Posts: 1187
Joined: June 14th, 2007, 7:29 pm
Body Type: Grainbox
Model Year: 1929
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Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by Stakebed » March 4th, 2015, 5:39 pm

yea, im gonna need it haha, either way in the future i can always put the correct bolts in as im not permanently altering anything.

Im probably over-thinking the whole idea anyways, its going to be awhile before i get my truck on the road but want to get the springs mounted and rear axle under the truck soon. I just replaced all the bushings and would like to keep them as round as i can for as long as i can.

FYI:
Grade 5 1" diameter bolts have a tension capacity (bolt stretching) of 75,986 lbs and a shear capacity of 58,900 lbs
Grade 8 1" diameter bolts have a tension capacity (bolt stretching) of 94,961 lbs and a shear capacity of 71,500 lbs

I may go with grade 8 as the forces where these bolts would be used is purely shear capacity and altering the head or nut wont affect the shear strength. The only way they are going to shear is if i get rear ended by a semi directly hitting the bolt which those bolts are the least of my worries in that scenario...

KimVanOrder
Posts: 606
Joined: August 11th, 2013, 4:25 pm
Body Type: 82-A Platform
Model Year: 1928
Location: Hamilton, Mich.

Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by KimVanOrder » March 5th, 2015, 5:32 pm

You got that right. I'm with you on "don't change anything permanatly". You can allways 'undo' anything you do..


I still vote weld them up.


KVO
KVO
Dec. '28 AA

Drew Mashburn
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Model Year: 1930
Location: Ojai, California

Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by Drew Mashburn » March 5th, 2015, 6:25 pm

Stakebed:

If you're truly going to use your AA as a work truck on a regular basis, then I'd install bolts that are the same hardness as the originals. Most AAers don't use their trucks as work trucks, and rarely haul heavy loads. Therefore, I can't imagine a bolt that's not quite a tough as the oringinal would make much of a difference.

-- Drew Mashburn
Drew Mashburn

Stakebed
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Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by Stakebed » March 5th, 2015, 8:16 pm

For now i found some bolts that are grade 5 but perfect shank length, only need to grind one flat of the head shorter to clear the shackle casting.

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macswoods
Posts: 281
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Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by macswoods » March 5th, 2015, 9:45 pm

I ground down one flat and fixed the nut this way.
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spectria
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Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by spectria » March 5th, 2015, 10:01 pm

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KimVanOrder
Posts: 606
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Re: Rear leaf to shackle bolts

Post by KimVanOrder » March 6th, 2015, 5:45 pm

Perfect !! :mrgreen:
KVO
Dec. '28 AA

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